$12256 / $11500
I always wondered what file format to upload when placing a song on Oga, but I would like people to tell me whats common amongst everyone and what you would use for the various projects everyone works on. Do people use Wav and mp3 the most in your games? Do you just want the lossless file to convert it yourself? I know a lot of games these days use ogg for their format because of the fast streaming it has. Would you guys like things done in flac so that is lightly compressed, and be less of a pain to download then wav? Or should I upload a AIf file and WAv file for both mac and window users to convert to whatever they please. Every song I upload, I never uploading more then 2 different file formats. So let me know what you guys think so I can choose something that will be more convienient to you guys.
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If I had to choose two formats, it would be:
1. A format for the purists (either pure data or pure license)
2. Something universal/easy to use for everyone else
So my vote is flac + mp3
I usually just upload .ogg for the common use of FOSS projects. But I guess I should remember that not everyone on here that is looking for audio is making a video game. Mp3 and wma to me is just too compressed, but that is just me I dont know how picky everyone is. But if i post something like flac or wav I just want to make sure there is a huge portion of people that have and or can convert it to the file format of their choice/.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
This is an interesting question, and the answer isn't easy. Flac+mp3 will please a large number of people, but it's a big upload. Ogg is a nice middle ground. It's an open format, which goes over well here, and the quality is better than mp3.
I would think it's always better to have a lossless encoding available, and open formats are always better to have than patented, so I would think having both FLAC and OGG available would be ideal.
I made this topic mostly to get the common response of what the people downloading want. If you want my absolute opinion on it, I think the previews should pretty much all be done in mp3 128kbps-192kbps it is the most common, it will save space, and the wordlength is saved enough for the average listener to not tell a difference from 192 to 320. for the upload file, the file should be higher then 192kbps and should at the very very very least be 320 kbps in mp3 format. If its under 320 kbps I highly recommend getting the original file and compressing it all over again. Having it at a higher format to have headroom for the person downloading it to place the sample and bitrate and what they would want.
Majority of the time I place my preview at 192kbps mp3 and 500kbps .ogg for the upload file.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
I realise this is an old topic but I figure I'll add my 2 cents.
I'm working on a game that will run on T-Engine. It's a simple Roguelike but T-Engine itself only plays .ogg that I know of.
So the only sound effect and music files that work for me are either ogg or something I can convert to ogg without recompressing. Generally speaking, this means I look for wav files or files that are already in ogg format and will specifically avoid mp3 files.
I think every game is going to have its own preference as far as file format depending on the engine they're built on. Uploading audio files into a format thats not already compressed allows people making games to choose how they want to compress it without worrying about recompressing something that's already compressed (like converting an mp3 to an ogg or vice versa).
So in my opinion, a lossless upload is the best option for everyone.
Although yes I agree with you, Its just tedious. Cause my internet is not the fastest I am still stuck on DSL. Sometimes I will upload alittle mini library to the website and if its in wav it is so tedious to upload all of it. Not to mention some people dont have access to convert things into mp3 much less ogg.
I for now mostly upload wav files for very very short sounds and ogg for music. If someone wants a lossless format, I highly recommend emailing me so I can help them out on that. Ogg is still lossy, but it can play at 500kbps rather than mp3 at 320kbps.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
I would like sounds to be available as .flac and .ogg vorbis and source format (if available).
I would like music to be available in .flac and .ogg vorbis and source format (if available).
I would like OGA to provide automatically-created .wav (in .zip) and .mp3 downloads for a donation fee (something like USD1 unlocks one art submission, USD5 unlocks 10, USD 20 unlocks 100.... or time-based stuff for >1USD instead).
SD2 FTW!!! lol, just kidding ;)
Personnally, I would tend to go wav and compressed (either mp3 or ogg), so users can recompress as they wish. FLAC is a very (very) nice compression, but if you can afford the bandwidth nothing will allow more flexibility than a wav.
@qubodop a wav in a zip won't compress it much (or at all). Your best bet is FLAC or Apple lossless (recently open-sourced).
Wav is fine for short sounds not songs or long durations of sound. Flac is there cause it remains lossless. It will compress the audio without losing valuable data so it can be transferred easily through the internet by making it slighty more reasonable as in how big the file is. Id say ogg is the best for music too though. Cause as I said ogg can go up to 500kbps. You are still losing data, but you are having more headroom if people need to compress it down further for use.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
FLAC remains a little lossy (why is there a slider from 1 to 10 if its lossless?). It will not beat a 24bit wav, but I do think FLAC is very high quality. I'm just crazy when it comes to audio quality :)
I'm not saying you should use wavs in your game! I'm saying the dev team can download your file, test out different compression algos, and get a better result than if they had a FLAC to compress from.
I also want to point out a 200 MB file isn't much anymore... Even a 500 MB file. We all have crazy fast connections now, even on our damned phones, so why the hate for an uncompressed format?
"Apple lossless (recently open-sourced)." -Socapex
More info, please :)
http://alac.macosforge.org
;)
edit:
You can google for the hundreds of news stories :P
Flac stands for free lossless audio codec. It doesnt compress the audio in away were valuable data is lost. I wont even closely become lossy.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
Then use it. It is a pretty good codec, but be sure to set it at the 10 quality. Because the other levels are... not lossless??? One wonders "Why are there different compression levels if its lossless".
Even the higher compressions of FLAC does a good job of keeping the overall quality of the audio format. You see lossy codecs like mp3 actually filter off high frequency trying to cut off some form of frequency that may or may not be usable to the human ear. However FLAC tries to not do this and keep that top headroom. That is why its lossless, it tries not to cut off any "valuable" data.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
I understand why you want to use it. Dont get me wrong here!
But, it is also lossy, just less. So please stop saying it is lossless, that is just not true.
People want lossless. As I can attest with my not very popular tracks. 50% of people downloaded the WAV files... Which means a game studio wants lossless...
I think FLAC at 10 is very nice. As I've stated before and as have stated many people on this thread. Don't worry about it :)
I like that you said its lossy just less.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
:)
"FLAC remains a little lossy (why is there a slider from 1 to 10 if its lossless?). ... But, it is also lossy, just less. So please stop saying it is lossless, that is just not true."
Everything I've read about FLAC says that it's lossless - do you have a reference for it being lossy? What is the "slider"?
"I also want to point out a 200 MB file isn't much anymore... Even a 500 MB file. We all have crazy fast connections now, even on our damned phones, so why the hate for an uncompressed format?"
One possible issue is for hosting, if there are space or transfer limits or costs(?)
With phones it's not so much a question of how fast the connection is, but download limits - 500MB is a common monthly allowance :) Although I agree this isn't necessarily a huge point, if I was worried about the download size, I'd just download the ogg or mp3 anyway.
FLAC is lossless. The slider is for the complexity (or whatever the right term is) of compression. Highver value = better compression = more processing time to decompress.
Same with PNG (lossless, level of compression can be manipulated).
Storage costs less than bandwidth. So it'd be useful to auto-convert lossless formats to lossy formats on OGA and provide both to save bandwidth, as mp3 is ideal for most purposes.
OK, so after trolling this thread for so long, I've decided I wanted to actually get this clear and see if FLAC is really lossless. So I set up a little test to figure out if FLAC conversion is actually lossless.
The test: I used 44.1/24bit wav file, compressed it in the highest quality possible, and matching FLAC format (using libsndfile). Once converted I reconverted it to wav. Then, I inversed the phase of one of the files and mixed them at exactly the same volume (0dBfs). What this does is cancel absolutely everything that is the same, and leaves behind what is different (nothing if FLAC is lossless).
Conclusion: I was so wrong. It is very impressive, FLAC does a wonderful job! I think it's quite important to step down when you are wrong in life (so many times we just keep getting stubborn about ideas we had). So, use FLAC ;)
Of course there was some little noise... at less than -135 dBfs, lol ;) That can be caused by many things and is imperceptible.
Cheers and sorry for having trolled this topic based on non-scientific assumptions. I stand humbled and corrected.
It does its job very well. We owe it to them. Some of that noise also could be from just the converting and manipulation itself. Very nice trick though and good for extra clarification. I hope this will clarify a lot to people who read this later on.
Brandon Morris,
Steam Group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OpenGameArt
If you guys need any help on projects email me atBrandonmorris12@gmail.com. Pay is not mandatory and Im open.
socapex: telling us there is noise without explaining whether it's in the file or just during playback and whether it is also in the original/wav and not providing proof is trolling/FUD-ing again :)
Well, you can compare it to ZIP. With ZIP, every byte also matters, and having lost data is unacceptable. It also has a "quality setting", but what it controls is not the amount of data lost but the "difficulty" of the compression algorithm (that is, how long it'll take to compress or extract data).
Except FLAC is designed to store sounds, making a better job at it than any universal file formats, as well as allowing to play a file w/o decompressing it as a whole -- making streaming possible.
The same way with PNG -- it is a compressed format which also has a "quality setting", but no matter what you choose, it also preserves every pixel as it is.
What do you mean? The noise is unhearable, I can simply see it at -135dB. As I said, it could be from anything like the converter, inversing the phase, the mix engine etc. The test wasn't thoroughly scientific, but it serves enough to prove you were right (to me at least).
Of course you can easily try the test yourself, the noise is so insignificant that I conclude you are right.