I don't have a lot of time to help with your project. But I'm exaclty looking for the art you described and I could contribute with money for bounties.

I like the idea of collecting monsters, descriptions, concept-art, models and derived sprites into an "open-ip" or "open franchise" monster-catalog for an open universe.

I quickly looked at the list, everything seems usefull ! I think the priority would have to have one of each kind first: there is more than 50 familly, so much models would be fantastic !

It would be good to have an animation list too.

Hello.

I support the idea. I am strongly for consistent sets myself.

It looks like you want consistency in 2 ways:

1) For each entry of a creature, you want different assets of the same creature, where those assets don't contradict each other in their depiction of the idea of the creature (eg: you have creature entry A; it has 2 3d-models made by different people, & 3 concept arts & 4 sound effects & a pixelart figure related to it; and all those should be visibly consistent with each other in that they should visibly depict the same creature (where the creature is defined through the assets themselves); so each new asset has to strive for consistency with all previous ones of the same entry; so as increasingly many assets are added, the definition of that creature is narrowed down. With this policy, freedom of design decreases in time, so a late-comer has to be extremely careful; there are many ways you could handle it - when a late joiner finds that he doesn't like the design forced by the previous assets of the monster entry, he could start a new monster entry; but then you'd have to keep it in check because if everyone just starts a new monster entry - and surely people generally DON'T want to copy other designs but rather start from scratch so starting from scratch will be very tempting - it will ruin this entire part of consistency. Also you'd need some potentially controversial moderation for consistency checks...).

2) You want different entries of creatures to have some assets of the same type, which are consistent with each other (eg: you have creature entries A, B & C as your entire current creature database. A has a model X made by one person, B has a model Y made by another person. Then if yet another contributor appears who wants to make a model of C - then you want to enforce or at least suggest him to strive for a style similar to either X or Y... I'm not sure how this would work out)

Interesting. This does seem to have some overlap with a major part of OGA2.0.

Interesting.  As far as visual consistency goes... well, there are a lot of different ways for an ogre to look.

Oki, I tried making a conceptart for an ogre:

I think the proposed unified bestiary project is most certainly a superb idea. 
Having such assets available would definitely be beneficial to the community.
A possibility would be to include sound effects for the animation sequences? (I see sound effects already mentioned...)
Maybe include all the assets of a particular monster into a singular compressed file? "Download this monster!"
A "Weekly Monster Challenge" perhaps? :P
All in all this is sounds like a wonderful idea, and I look forward to watching it evolve! :)

@pennomi, I'm not really interested in changing my work according to the feedback of the general public; a system where everyone simply draws over previous iterations by other people & posts the work himself, would be better.

Especially as concept art assets of different creatures don't have to be as visibly consistent with each other as other assets, because they will never be shown in the game; so it's ok to eg draw with the unantialiased pencil tool in ms paint over a carefully done piece made in photoshop.

Also, pennomi = eyerouge/snowsomething?

pennomi not = eyerouge/snowdrop

They are involved in at least one project together WTactics.

As much as I like the idea of a unified bestiarity project I don't want to be locked into pixel art when I want hirez, nor some I would guess would want to use hirez when they are going with hirez

I would like to see some format/styles as output where a monster can be the hi rez 3d styl,2d pixel art reprezentation and maybe a hi rez cartoon style

The new monster shouldn't necesary have support for all styles but have consistancy with atleast one

That way other people can add the other styles as needed

So, I thought I'd chime in here.

The art collections in OGA2 can be used for pretty much whatever people want to.  They also get their own discussion page and the like, so if you want to have a group for the express purpose of creating unified sets of monster art.  It should be noted that collections can also contain other collections, so you could have a singlke master collection of all of these monster types, and then collections for each art style.  Since you aren't limited to one collection per art piece, you could also organize the monsters by species (for instance, have a group of all the slimes).

If you find that it makes sense to create your own website, I think we should talk about an OGA art submission API, which could be used to submit art to OGA automatically when it's added to your site.

Peace,

Bart

This sounds like a cool project. I'm no artist but after seeing this thread I got the urge to "make a monster". ^^ I went for something really simple which you can see here: http://opengameart.org/content/floating-eyeball

Hopefully it will inspire a real artist to replace that piece with something decent. :D

@pennomi:

Apart from here on OGA, I'd recommend asking at blenderartists.org, as there are a lot of experienced 3D artists there.  Other 3D art forums may work too, but you'll probably have a more difficult time convincing people to go with a free license and an open format.

I like the idea of a bestiary project, but i think it should be possible to have different designs for one creature, as long as they aren't completely contrary to its "common idea". This common idea should be defined by some rather general characteristics that have to be respected (1) followed by specific details that can (but don't need to) be respected (2) , e.g.:

(1)Goblins are small, weak and commonly coward humanoids.

(2)They often have green skin and huge ears and tend to be crazy about explosives.

These defintions should be included into the description of every single creature's thread.

Btw, here are some creatures you could add to your list:

- Sphinx

- Harpy

- Chimera

- Hydra

- Gryphon

- Basilisk

- Phoenix

- Satyr

- Cerberus

- Pegasus

- Lion

>I like the idea of a bestiary project, but i think it should be possible to have different designs for one creature, as long as they aren't completely contrary to its "common idea".

This is actually what I was getting at with my comment about different kinds of ogres, etc.  I think it would be entirely possible to have say, three different types of goblins (e.g. Warcraft-, Wesnoth-, and D&D-esque).  How should that be handled?  And what about similar but not identical monsters, like Ents (LotR), Treants (D&D), and Woses (Wesnoth)?  What about different art styles, like realistic vs. cartoony?  Polygon counts, texture sizes, normal maps?

Just some things to consider. :)

http://opengameart.org/content/orc-flare-3d

http://opengameart.org/content/orc-flare-sprite-sheets

They're not exactly within the specifications (a little high poly, not UV mapped), as I just refurbished an unfinished model I had lying around from last year, but they're a start and they look fine in FLARE.  Is there some way we should be tagging everything to keep it organized?

I plan to contribute here, especially as I want to greatly grow Flare's bestiary.

I also intend to step up my game a bit with my next monsters. I want to make sure my models are good enough to drop right into a 3D game.

Anyone work extensively with using 3D creatures in games? It would be nice to have various guidelines and best practices.  E.g. avoid feature X because it doesn't export to most formats, or make sure the model is oriented a certain way.

I have an old werebear model that I'm not using for anything, and it could probably be that ogre with a little work if somebody wants to give it a shot.

@Anonymous, I'm actually not sure.  I think it uses a modified version of one I made for another character, but this model is from last October, so my memory is a bit lacking.  I'm currently fixing it up a bit.

http://opengameart.org/content/werebear-3d

http://opengameart.org/content/werebear-flare-sprite-sheets

http://opengameart.org/content/spider-flare-sprite-sheets

http://opengameart.org/content/low-poly-spider-glest

I am a big supporter of the "open-universe" idea (In fact I think I was one of the first ones that came up with the idea in this extended community :p ) and the idea or a bestiary like you propose is not so far I guess.

However... don't go down the wrong path of trying to make an abstract set of monsters with no specific game in mind... there is no way people will stay motivated working on such a project. I would suggest you start with a game (Flare for example) and create a consistant set of mosteres for that game. If you keep your general idea in mind when creating these, such a set can then afterwards grow into your bigger idea, and if not... well at least you have some additional monsteres for the game :)

But there is also another thing... it is amost impossible for two different artists to make an consistant style totally independantly, especially when it comes to textureing. So probably you will have to have some core contributors specializing on the different trades (modeling, texturing, animating) through whose hands the models have to go through at the various stages for "reworking" the models in a more consistant style.

I could get behind a game built on FLARE.  One of the good things about it is that the artist has a lot of leeway in how they do things -- as long as it comes out fine in the render, it's all good.  A model made for an FPS works just as well as one made for an RTS, and so on.  The main drawback is the time it takes to render, which really depends on the artist's computer.

Flare isn't a great target for this because Flare uses tiny 2D renders. Flare creatures don't have to worry about poly count, UV mapping, textures, good rigging, etc. That's setting the bar pretty low. The end result could look passable in Flare but might be unusable crap in a 3D game.

In fact, none of Flare's current creatures would look decent in e.g. a first-person view 3D game. I've taken a lot of shortcuts with my creatures because I only need about 20x60 pixels worth of info.

I still think a unified bestiary project could be a good idea if you push for high technical quality.

Even if you achieve that technical quality, you are running against the bigger issue: lack of aesthetic art direction. It might be easy to build a large collection of very bland/generic 3D models, but they probably won't get used in games that care about aesthetics.

Or, OGA could build a bestiary with an art direction. That eliminates plenty of games that use a different style. If the bestiary was good enough it could influence games to go with that style. But this is hard work and requires strong criticism, and the end result might not be used as much as a generic bestiary.

I think you need a couple critics working together. Maybe a technical critic ("this model needs a spec map, fix it") and an aesthetic critic ("this monster doesn't look scary at all.").

I think a good one-size-fits-all bestiary might not need a distinct overall art direction, but it should have a strong set of core guidelines/principles.

For example, with Flare I don't have a strong art direction but I want to make sure each creature feels unique on looks alone. Because I don't have a lot of room for detail, I pour most of the personality of creatures into the way they move. If my goblins were just small green humanoids they'd be instantly forgettable. Instead I made them hop around, floppy ears, etc. to give the sense that they're curious and fey. You can also see where I fall short with the Skeleton -- his walk animation is too upright and stiff and has no personality; yes, even undead should ooze personality.

Some example aesthetic principles:

• A humanoid creature should never just be a human body with an animal head attached, or a human with different color skin.
• Tell a story with the creature's clothes or adornments.
• The creature's stance and way of moving should allude to the personality, and maybe toughness, of the creature.
• The creature should have a unique silhouette not shared with other creatures.

Some example technical principles:

• Use quads as much as possible.
• Use an extra edge-loop around joints (e.g. elbows, knees).
• Keep subdivision modeling in mind: respect edge loop flow that would work in a higher-poly model.
• If it helps the model, sculpt a high-res version and bake a normal map
• Make sure the mesh and armature scale/rotation are cleared/applied before doing animations
• Avoid features that can't be used in most 3D engines (e.g. particle fur)
• Perhaps use a common rig for humanoid creatures

Now, I'm going to critique the monsters posted in this thread on aesthetics; just to give you an example of what is needed to build a usable bestiary.

1. Blarumyrran's Ogre

I love the art direction, it definitely feels unique. I would make up a new creature name for it ("Ogre" invokes too many fantasy standards, and it would be better for this to be a new creature). It probably wouldn't work as an enemy; the proportions (large upper body, very small lower body) gives the sense that it is a harmless, maybe misunderstood creature. If you want it to be menacing instead, try normalizing the proportions a bit and maybe do something unique with his posture.

2. Johndh's Orc

At the size rendered for Flare it just looks like a human with green skin. That makes it an unexciting enemy option. Maybe having its own animations would help. Also consider a thematic way for all orcs to dress (e.g. tribal, or blackened iron, or skulls of their enemies) to give orcs a visual distinction and race story.

3. Johndh's Werebear

Too much "teddy-bear" and not enough "godless killing machine". Maybe he should gallop on all fours instead of walking upright. Maybe he needs shredded clothes so that the Were- part is more obvious. I might change his proportions and head shape so it looks more like a sentient Kodiak (look bulkier and furrier).

4. Jondh's Spider

Generic but that's okay -- plenty of games will need a basic spider. I would probably suggest different variations that look more intimidating. Make one that has thick hairy tarantula-style legs. Maybe one that is more fantasy, with glowing markings and glands. Maybe one that has is covered in spikes/horns/blades, evolved in a dangerous forest.  Or maybe combine those options to make a truly terrifying spider, one that fits as a real enemy in more games.

Apologies to Blarumyrran and Johndh for being my lab rats there. I usually don't give uninvited criticism.

From here on, I'm happy to help critique anyone's art if specifically requested. I'm not a great critic so feel free to use or ignore what I say.

At one point we talked about OGA having an option to encourage critiques. E.g. when a user submits new art they can click a checkbox that says "please critique this". Maybe we'll revisit that when OGA2 is in full swing.

Re: Orc

Hmm... it's a shame the differences don't really come across at that scale.  I guess it's kinda hard to tell when they're not standing next to a human.  Do they not look thematically consistent?  I tried but I guess maybe it didn't come across as well as I thought.

Re: Werebear

Making it a quadruped might be a whole can of worms that I don't want to open, but I think I can make a few tweaks to make it less cute.

Re: Spider

I do plan on making some variations for that spider.  I probably would have if I had more time last night.  It's on my to-do list.

> Apologies to Blarumyrran and Johndh for being my lab rats there. I usually don't give uninvited criticism.

Consider all future constructive criticism of my work to be invited.  I'm sure I probably make a lot of mistakes that are more visible to another pair of eyes.

I'm doing a foss browser based TBS called Ancient Beast.

It has 7 realms, each with seven creatures that range from level 1 to 7, so 49 creatures + a summon + a character representing the players on the combat field, that sums it up to 51 creatures.

Check out the bestiary http://AncientBeast.com/bestiary

If you click the progress widgets, you can see the source files in wuala. Also keep in mind that a lot of work is going on, so eventually every creature will get modeled in blender, animated and rendered as sprite sheets for the first version of the game, which is 2d that will be followed by a 3d version that's compatible and optional; you'll even be able to see 3d turntable previews of the creatures right inside the bestiary pretty soon. Everything is under CC-BY-SA 3.0

Even uploading some of the stuff here on OGA under this collection http://opengameart.org/content/ancientbeast

It would be if a few of you guys would support this project financially for as little as $2 per month or with one time donations, me and others put a lot of time and energy into it for a long time now, but almost nobody donates. I'm getting the impression the donation page is broken or something... http://AncientBeast.com/donate

I really want this project to become the chess of the future so I really need your support!

Typical reaction when I ask for financial support is "why don't you make a kickstarter campaign?"... there are some reasons I didn't done so already: it's USA only (but I could get around that as the lead concept artist is from USA), it takes a huge cut, about 10% along with Amazon. And I need to prepare a decent video, which means quite a bit of money being invested into equipment, but I barely get any donations and I don't have any income, still I struggled to get a camera phone with 8mb pixel camera that can shoot full HD (1080p), got a stand for it, got 3 lightning setup and talked with a pretty model that will present the video. I need to adjust the support to work with the camera phone, finish the script, plan the rewards better, fix my laptop so it can be used for reading the script while recording and what I need your financial support with: purchasing a green screen or green material (plus stand) so I can replace the background with something nice (similar to what Riot does for the summoner showcase videos for League of Legends, staring Nikasaur), a decent microphone perhaps and a bit of funding for marketing. I'm also about to hire a (part-time) coder from my city (which means about 250$ / month) to work on gameplay. So once again... http://AncientBeast.com/donate

@pennomi: always looking for more people to work with on this project, so need financial help as I mentioned above, coding help (PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS, Javascript) and more artists involved.

Anyway, main issue of the project atm is the lack of a playable prototype, hopefully it's just a matter of a few more months... Please support this project, really need your help to get things going better and faster! I really want this to become awesome and worldwide popular but I can't do it if people don't contribute.

Don't even bother with Kickstarter... as far as I have seen it really isn't very sucessfull for true hobbiist projects, but rather a way for old PC only developers to get back into the game without publisher funding (which is nowadays too much focused on console gaming).

In the end don't expect there to be any significant amount of donations until there is a lively community around a well functioning game (can be an alpha or beta version though). It sucks I know... and it certainly is a chicken/egg problem to some extend.

IHMO the best for Ancient Beast (which has really awesome artwork so far) would be probably to find some bigger HTML5 project to "piggy-back" on. Often the code requirements are quite similar for totally different games (see for example the use of the flare engine for some of the LPC entries), so don't be too close-minded when looking for potential projects.

Anyways... good look with the game! And once there is a playable prototype I will probably donate a few bucks ;)

@Julius well, can't really make a KS campaign anyway, since I'm not from USA or UK. Anyway, I'm slowly preparing an Indiegogo campaign.

I don't really want to piggy back Ancient Beast on some other project for a variety of reasons, for example a lot of projects tend to use too many common fantasycreatures, such as goblins, skeleton etc, which I tend to keep to a minimum. Anyway, some of the Ancient Beast creatures are already being used in other games now and even in cg animations, so it's probably just a matter of time until some of the creatures will also end up in Flare RPG, already talked about this with Clint from time to time.

Regarding Ancient Beast having a playable prototype, version 0.1 was released on 12th December 2012 and it was way more playable than I actually anticipated, provided you have someone nearby that's a chalenging player, since the game is only hotseat for now.

Version 0.2 will be released in the near future, on 15th June (2013), so there will be a pretty big update by then. Whoever wants is free to join the release event on facebook https://www.facebook.com/events/339250709535904/ and/or G+ https://plus.google.com/b/113034814032002995836/events/cinlmqupjfm2j1tf6...

Thanks! If you still wish to donate a few bucks, the money always comes in handy for the development http://ancientbeast.com/donate/  - make sure you mention your website when donating, because it's really great SEO as you'll be listed online :)