Except they are not improvement tbh. I didn't submit an entry to the jam for the same reason, I end up trying to work too much on a field where I'm not an expert to begin with. While I did see some needed things like you said, it doesn't mean that I have the ability/experience to make them, Which is why I mention the fact that most of the time only artists can add upon an existing entry.
To answer your curiosity, while I need to find back the credits file I did for them I've used a combination of George/Jetrel/Sharm & Buch entries. Since I had a building idea I needed to make some corners, reduce some sprites to make them look like icons etc.
Anyway, of course what I've posted in the thread share the same license so they're free to use (though I'd have to respect the original licenses first so I need to find back the files) but like I say they are very specific to one specific thing I had in mind at a specific time, so in a way it's creating exactly the same issue of what we're talking about, and it's not even original work since it's mostly frankenstein-ish stuff. I wouldn't mind talking about that point more but I feel like it'd be better in another thread.
Ah right, no offense but to be crude my edits are sh*t. I just started putting pixels here and there to see what I'd need and while I did post the edits in this thread I strongly wouldn't recommend them, they are more WIP than anything else.
@withthelove
>a challenge devs face when using OGA
If I may, to expand on what I said above there's the challenge and there's the impossibility. If someone wants to use a "bunny hop collection" and the bunny is missing its jump animation, you can't really challenge your way out of this. Or, I guess you technically can try by either rotating or hoping the pixels around but that is definitely going to look different from what you already have (consistency) unless you are an artist yourself. Again, please, I don't want people to get the wrong idea. I'm not saying that there aren't any complete sets nor that entries should all be completed whatsoever, I'm just merely pointing a fact that might explain why people aren't using OGA assets more.
I love the idea of the OGA jam because it allows you to make "showcases" of art, or short games. *I* believe, due to OGA format, that they are more practical because it is then easier to work with the limitations or missing sprites.
I kind of disagree with what you call being a "challenge" when it's basically trying to work out different artstyles into one game, they either work together or they don't. Let's be honest, even if you find very similar entries you can't just throw them in and call it a day, that'd be very lazy and will probably end up looking weird. There are at least the parts where you have to make sure the palettes are similar, where the dimensions are ok, and that whatever animations you're using are fine when you put them in an actual gamescreen to cite a few.
The thing is, if you really want to make the best out of it there is some additional work that goes to the art part when you're using different entries, and you will be trying to work out something that the original authors didn't, or more like had no way to think about at the time (and again, I'm not blaming, this is just a logical consequence since we are the one mashing artstyles around).
In any case I feel like I gave the wrong impression here. When I talked about missing sprites I didn't suggest that people should go back and complete anything, I just merely stated that when it comes to consistency you're going to miss stuff and adding onto them is something that only other artists can do, which is why lots of very good entries haven't been used yet or why we had less participants than, say, the Kenney jam despite being very similar in essence.
It is why I suggested that artists should give more details, or to use another word more "context", on what they post sometimes. As a dev I can try to guess all I want but I can't read mind, so while I think that some things might be missing I still can be wrong.
Actually we can also address the big elephant in the room : at the end of the day it's still free work.
While I, as a dev, do see this place as a good source of materials to try to make a game, I've asked myself if it was the same for others? Again, we can make assumptions but they are just that, assumptions. - Maybe some believe it's a good place to dump stuff they don't plan to work on anymore but would like to see in a game? - Maybe they hope someone would help them to finish a complete set? - Maybe it's simply to advertise their place? - Maybe it's simply for fun? We can never know, but depending on what they stand the resulting art is not going to be the same.
Like you already said someone can come, be amazed, ask for a hurt animation and it can go horribly wrong from there, it usually does, I've seen too many artists/developers "wars" because of that.
One another thing is that modifying/completing assets is actually harder than what people might think. For example I've been trying to modify/create additions for what I needed for the jam but in the end I wasted too much time doing something that I can't do at all in the first place (linked files, didn't submit them because well... ironically, they're also incomplete). This is why I usually avoid to frankenstein anything, it's usually worse and ends up bringing down the value of the original file. I'd hardly call that beneficial for the original artist and I think that most people think that way, or at least devs.
Anyway this is why I think that both challenges, art & game, are necessary. It might help to complete collections, but it's also a good opportunity for others to bring something to the table so that artists don't feel like they're the only one participating or doing all the work for free.
EDIT: Erf, actually the 2 first files are from another jam attempt (lowres). The ones I made for the OGA jam are the ogaworld ones. But as you can see, I've been trying.
Hmm... maybe. Though I suspect that artists don't get back to their work mainly because they don't particulary want to. I mean, I know for a fact that creating assets for a game is more work, and less fun, that creating assets on a whim. If anything I'd suggest artists to try to give more details on what they had in mind when they create something. I had the chance to talk with a few and I noticed that most of the time while they create gorgeous stuff they don't have a clear plan of what kind of game they want for it.
Right now I'm currently trying to think of something from the "simple broad purpose" collection as a late submission because at least I won't have to frankenstein too much stuff. Again, as a developer, I think it's kind of a waste to not have games using the awesome stuff you can find, though we kind of know why it's not happening.
@Spring
Yeah but, like he said that's kind of the point of the OGA jam. I mean, there are already plenty of jams so if they make one where people can just use everything it wouldn't be that different from using the weekly jams or Ludum dares.
( lost my post after hitting reply from the preview, hopefully won't get a duplicate )
If I may...
First of all, I just finally decided to join. Didn't before because I'm mainly a developer so I can't really bring anything interesting to an art-oriented community so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt.
Anyway, I've been a silent follower of OGA for maybe 2-3 years. I too agree to the fact that it'd be nice to get this place a bit more out, and in my opinion I think that having both art/games challenges can be good. First to bring some more art in OGA, because it lost a bit of steam for the past year, and to bring some more games, because the point of the art is at the very end to be used in games... right?
Where I disagree a bit is on the 6 asset limitations, for 3 reasons to be precise.
1. *I* believe that it'd just be better to completely restrict the usage of assets to be from here, whether they add them before or during the jam. To give an example, a bit like the current Kenney asset jam going on : you can only use assets from his place. While I do think that it's a bit self-promoting, I also think it isn't a bad strategy if you want more people to know about this place without coming out too douchey.
2. Another reason why I think it'd be good is limitation. Having some kind of limitation can help with creativity but it also helps idiots like me to stay on track when making a game. It can also serve as some kind of asset highlights?
3. Now, more of a personal reason but... To be honest, while I totally agree that OGA has some wonderful assets, they are kind of... incomplete, even to make just a small little game. Don't get me wrong, yulpers is a good example that you can make something fun with little, but from a developer's perspective (who absolutely sucks at even modifying 8x8 arts) I always felt like that most of the assets are always missing "that little thing" to make them rise, though I can't really point out what is that thing. For example I absolutely love Sara and think she deserves her little game, but I just can't gather enough -consistent- assets to make her a proper little game. Some are incomplete, some are inconsistent (pixel errors, color errors, grid error etc) and others are just too specific to the artist's mind at the time. But anyway, that last point is purely subjective so feel free to discard it and please don't get offended by it, there is already a huge amount of stuff and all for free so I don't want to sound entitled or something.
(arf, waiting for my other pc to get my avatar back)
@MedecineStorm
Except they are not improvement tbh. I didn't submit an entry to the jam for the same reason, I end up trying to work too much on a field where I'm not an expert to begin with.
While I did see some needed things like you said, it doesn't mean that I have the ability/experience to make them, Which is why I mention the fact that most of the time only artists can add upon an existing entry.
To answer your curiosity, while I need to find back the credits file I did for them I've used a combination of George/Jetrel/Sharm & Buch entries. Since I had a building idea I needed to make some corners, reduce some sprites to make them look like icons etc.
Anyway, of course what I've posted in the thread share the same license so they're free to use (though I'd have to respect the original licenses first so I need to find back the files) but like I say they are very specific to one specific thing I had in mind at a specific time, so in a way it's creating exactly the same issue of what we're talking about, and it's not even original work since it's mostly frankenstein-ish stuff. I wouldn't mind talking about that point more but I feel like it'd be better in another thread.
@MedecineStorm
Ah right, no offense but to be crude my edits are sh*t. I just started putting pixels here and there to see what I'd need and while I did post the edits in this thread I strongly wouldn't recommend them, they are more WIP than anything else.
@withthelove
>a challenge devs face when using OGA
If I may, to expand on what I said above there's the challenge and there's the impossibility. If someone wants to use a "bunny hop collection" and the bunny is missing its jump animation, you can't really challenge your way out of this. Or, I guess you technically can try by either rotating or hoping the pixels around but that is definitely going to look different from what you already have (consistency) unless you are an artist yourself.
Again, please, I don't want people to get the wrong idea. I'm not saying that there aren't any complete sets nor that entries should all be completed whatsoever, I'm just merely pointing a fact that might explain why people aren't using OGA assets more.
I love the idea of the OGA jam because it allows you to make "showcases" of art, or short games. *I* believe, due to OGA format, that they are more practical because it is then easier to work with the limitations or missing sprites.
I kind of disagree with what you call being a "challenge" when it's basically trying to work out different artstyles into one game, they either work together or they don't.
Let's be honest, even if you find very similar entries you can't just throw them in and call it a day, that'd be very lazy and will probably end up looking weird. There are at least the parts where you have to make sure the palettes are similar, where the dimensions are ok, and that whatever animations you're using are fine when you put them in an actual gamescreen to cite a few.
The thing is, if you really want to make the best out of it there is some additional work that goes to the art part when you're using different entries, and you will be trying to work out something that the original authors didn't, or more like had no way to think about at the time (and again, I'm not blaming, this is just a logical consequence since we are the one mashing artstyles around).
In any case I feel like I gave the wrong impression here. When I talked about missing sprites I didn't suggest that people should go back and complete anything, I just merely stated that when it comes to consistency you're going to miss stuff and adding onto them is something that only other artists can do, which is why lots of very good entries haven't been used yet or why we had less participants than, say, the Kenney jam despite being very similar in essence.
Guess I can agree with @withthelove too.
@withthelove
It is why I suggested that artists should give more details, or to use another word more "context", on what they post sometimes. As a dev I can try to guess all I want but I can't read mind, so while I think that some things might be missing I still can be wrong.
Actually we can also address the big elephant in the room : at the end of the day it's still free work.
While I, as a dev, do see this place as a good source of materials to try to make a game, I've asked myself if it was the same for others? Again, we can make assumptions but they are just that, assumptions.
- Maybe some believe it's a good place to dump stuff they don't plan to work on anymore but would like to see in a game?
- Maybe they hope someone would help them to finish a complete set?
- Maybe it's simply to advertise their place?
- Maybe it's simply for fun?
We can never know, but depending on what they stand the resulting art is not going to be the same.
Like you already said someone can come, be amazed, ask for a hurt animation and it can go horribly wrong from there, it usually does, I've seen too many artists/developers "wars" because of that.
One another thing is that modifying/completing assets is actually harder than what people might think. For example I've been trying to modify/create additions for what I needed for the jam but in the end I wasted too much time doing something that I can't do at all in the first place (linked files, didn't submit them because well... ironically, they're also incomplete).
This is why I usually avoid to frankenstein anything, it's usually worse and ends up bringing down the value of the original file. I'd hardly call that beneficial for the original artist and I think that most people think that way, or at least devs.
Anyway this is why I think that both challenges, art & game, are necessary. It might help to complete collections, but it's also a good opportunity for others to bring something to the table so that artists don't feel like they're the only one participating or doing all the work for free.
EDIT: Erf, actually the 2 first files are from another jam attempt (lowres). The ones I made for the OGA jam are the ogaworld ones. But as you can see, I've been trying.
@chasersgaming
Hmm... maybe. Though I suspect that artists don't get back to their work mainly because they don't particulary want to. I mean, I know for a fact that creating assets for a game is more work, and less fun, that creating assets on a whim.
If anything I'd suggest artists to try to give more details on what they had in mind when they create something. I had the chance to talk with a few and I noticed that most of the time while they create gorgeous stuff they don't have a clear plan of what kind of game they want for it.
Right now I'm currently trying to think of something from the "simple broad purpose" collection as a late submission because at least I won't have to frankenstein too much stuff. Again, as a developer, I think it's kind of a waste to not have games using the awesome stuff you can find, though we kind of know why it's not happening.
@Spring
Yeah but, like he said that's kind of the point of the OGA jam. I mean, there are already plenty of jams so if they make one where people can just use everything it wouldn't be that different from using the weekly jams or Ludum dares.
( lost my post after hitting reply from the preview, hopefully won't get a duplicate )
If I may...
First of all, I just finally decided to join. Didn't before because I'm mainly a developer so I can't really bring anything interesting to an art-oriented community so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt.
Anyway, I've been a silent follower of OGA for maybe 2-3 years. I too agree to the fact that it'd be nice to get this place a bit more out, and in my opinion I think that having both art/games challenges can be good. First to bring some more art in OGA, because it lost a bit of steam for the past year, and to bring some more games, because the point of the art is at the very end to be used in games... right?
Where I disagree a bit is on the 6 asset limitations, for 3 reasons to be precise.
1. *I* believe that it'd just be better to completely restrict the usage of assets to be from here, whether they add them before or during the jam. To give an example, a bit like the current Kenney asset jam going on : you can only use assets from his place.
While I do think that it's a bit self-promoting, I also think it isn't a bad strategy if you want more people to know about this place without coming out too douchey.
2. Another reason why I think it'd be good is limitation. Having some kind of limitation can help with creativity but it also helps idiots like me to stay on track when making a game. It can also serve as some kind of asset highlights?
3. Now, more of a personal reason but...
To be honest, while I totally agree that OGA has some wonderful assets, they are kind of... incomplete, even to make just a small little game. Don't get me wrong, yulpers is a good example that you can make something fun with little, but from a developer's perspective (who absolutely sucks at even modifying 8x8 arts) I always felt like that most of the assets are always missing "that little thing" to make them rise, though I can't really point out what is that thing.
For example I absolutely love Sara and think she deserves her little game, but I just can't gather enough -consistent- assets to make her a proper little game. Some are incomplete, some are inconsistent (pixel errors, color errors, grid error etc) and others are just too specific to the artist's mind at the time. But anyway, that last point is purely subjective so feel free to discard it and please don't get offended by it, there is already a huge amount of stuff and all for free so I don't want to sound entitled or something.
(arf, waiting for my other pc to get my avatar back)
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