So for fun I've been browsing video game media on Wikimedia Commons -- WMC only allows free works to be uploaded and is pretty strict and serious about verifying their free status. And I am finding some real juicy stuff. For example this trailer for a Warner Bros game has been released under CC-BY-SA:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MultiVersus_%E2%80%93_Official_C...
Which means I can happily just rip nice professional 3D renderings of Bugs Bunny, Batman, Superman and other million dollar characters and post them here on OGA for anyone to use, they are free culture now. You'd think it's some kind of troll upload or slip but there has already been a deletion request on that trailer, there was a discussion and they figured out the trailer has really been released under CC-BY-SA by Warner Bros. So, can I post these characters? It's pretty funny, this would literally allow anyone to make commercial movies with these characters without paying any fees.
Besides this there is a myriad of other proprietary game screenshots/animations/videos like that (e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Broforce_miniboss_animated.gif) from which I can rip their assets and happily upload here. Under each such resource there is archived email evidence of the author confirming they allow reuse under CC-BY-SA. I assume some of these authors might get pretty angry and may have misunderstood the consequence of their decision, but legally we should be able to reuse these freely.
So should/can I do it? It would be pretty hilarious.
................................ go for it, bro.
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No mind to think;
No will to break;
No voice to cry suffering.
If you are totally sure it's Creative Commons, pass it with MedicineStorm and post it.
Yeah, I guess that's true... but:
TL;DR: Best not post that kind of stuff to OGA. It could be legal, but still questionable, and hardly received well here.
--Medicine Storm
Yes I was also thinking about trademarks which WMC simply ignores but I know you told me OGA doesn't ignore. But apart from that I personally trust WMC (not necessarily Wikipedia) more than most other websites, they have very clear licensing info, discussions, archives of email proofs, editing logs and a great number of eyes checking the validity of licensing. I am not trusting it 100%, but if I would have to choose to trust anyone with a license, it would be WMC.
Well, I'm probably not going to post this in near future as I'm a bit lazy :p But I wanted to hear the opinions. For now I'll leave this legal experiment to anyone who's willing to go for it -- if it's going to be posted, don't forget to provide extensive info in the comments linking to all the evidence of the license etcetc.
I would personally never use these characters in my games and wouldn't recommend it, even if it was reasonably verified to be legally possible anyway. I just found this an interesting thing to discuss. Would it really be possible for "intellectual property" possibly worh millions of dollars to slip into the free realm by a misclick of some Warner Bros social media manager that checked the wrong license checkbox when posting a trailer on youtube? Would one of the biggest world corporations be unable to do something against this? They might be able to prove it was a mistake or incompetence of the media manager and court might order this to be reverted in which case these characters would go back from free to proprietary in which case potentially free media created with these characters might become proprietary overnight :) Which has happened with some public domain works already BTW. I don't know, I find it funny that the power of a corporationg here seems to be stronger than a free license, at least to me.
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Please share your art under CC0!
website: http://www.tastyfish.cz
liberapay: https://liberapay.com/drummyfish
It would be pretty funny to use thier content (sans the trademarked stuff). If people are going to twist WMC's open requirement so they can advertise their products, they deserve to have others twist their intent to use the product in competing projects.
However, the question I was answering was not if it would ok to use that stuff in our own projects. There is a difference between what we are all willing to use in our projects versus what is permitted on OGA. For instance, the new Pixabay license permits anyone to use any of the assets in their own projects, enthusiastically so, but it does not allow redistribution on asset sharing sites. We are legally and ethically allowed to use them in our projects, but OGA is not a game project, it is an asset redistribution site.
In the same way, I suppose you could use those assets from WB or BroForce legally, but OGA has always had a policy of not hosting art that the artist doesn't wish to be hosted here, even if it is legally permitted for us to do so. This isn't a case of a powerful corporation frightening OGA into obedience despite what the licensing says. This specific scenario has been brought up before (see my link in bullet point #3) and the conclusion was that, legal or not, if it isn't obvious the asset owner wants us to share it, we wont. BroForce was basically saying "well, that wasn't our intent, but I guess it's legal so what can we do?" and Clint Bellanger was very clear that was not sufficient to host it here and was not worth risking bad blood with artists.
Ultimately, it comes down to this: OGA values the good will of artists more than it values the ability to technically use the assets legally.
--Medicine Storm
That's all pretty fair, I just find the OGA rule for not hosting files against the author's will kind of anti free-culture. Of course, OGA may legally impose such a rule, just as it is legal to create proprietary software for example, but it's a rule against free culture spirit directly violating one of the four essential freedoms, specifically anyone's right to redistribute art. If an author decides to use a free license, he chooses to give up the right to decide who and where can redistribute this art, and OGA reinstates this right (even if just in its own territory), taking a step back towards permission culture. I don't believe there is malicious intent behind that rule, but in my opinion it doesn't consider the in-depth consequences and it doesn't fit at all here. Just saying, I'd be glad if that rule could perhap be discussed and reconsidered.
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Please share your art under CC0!
website: http://www.tastyfish.cz
liberapay: https://liberapay.com/drummyfish
I would say in my opinion this case can easily be a "No" on the grounds of trademark ("OGA cannot accept art that contains registered trademarks" from the guidlines). But I agree it's a very interesting case!
I would love to see this get publicity - a quick Google suggests no one seems to have noticed that WB Games may have inadvertedly allowed derivative works for a bunch of their work - but I can see it fair that OGA shouldn't have to be the guinea pig here.
Btw, just to clarify the situation: I don't think the recommendation or requirement to obtain explicit permission to upload (as discussed in link #3, and https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/site-faqsubmission-guidelines-updates... ) did make it into the rules/guidelines, unless I'm missing it? Although if this issue only comes up in a manner that people are unsure on once every 7 years, there is perhaps the argument that it seems fine dealing with it on a case by case basis.
But yes, I know it's always been a rule that authors can request their art be removed (which ended up being the case for the Broforce example anyway).
"Besides this there is a myriad of other proprietary game screenshots/animations/videos like that (e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Broforce_miniboss_animated.gif) from which I can rip their assets and happily upload here."
Or apparently not, as shown by link 3 ;)
As an aside I note that there are also clear examples of sprites ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Broforce_sprites ) which does confuse me now, as the discussion in link #3 seemed to focus almost entirely on the screenshots (and the idea that creating derivative works to use in games was unobvious).
@drummyfish - I think it's fine for OGA to choose not to host. I do agree with your comments on free-culture though. On the one hand I think one needs to be careful if someone mistakenly used or misunderstood a licence (and either people want to be nice, or avoid public or legal battles etc). But it isn't unethical IMO to use a work under those four freedoms and according to that licence. The idea of legal-but-not-ethical-to-create-derivative-works would risk polluting free art with content that is legally free but unethical to use. But as I say, I'm still okay with OGA not hosting - indeed, if that's the view of the authors, that's all the more reason not to share it.
I think that the way the rule at https://opengameart.org/content/faq#q-takedown is phrased is very pro-free-culture (it points out the implications of the licence).
Yeah well this is diving into another topic, I'll just say that I think the point of free culture is that it is always ethical for anyone to reshare anyone else's work, even against the author's will, and it is always unethical to prevent anyone from resharing any work. I don't believe any resharing can ever be unethical, it can only be illegal.
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Please share your art under CC0!
website: http://www.tastyfish.cz
liberapay: https://liberapay.com/drummyfish
I agree: it is always ethical for anyone to reshare anyone's else's work (that is released under a free/libre license) even without asking. I hesitate to say "even against the author's will" because it depends on if the author shared it, then changed their mind vs. the author didn't share it, someone else did... or the "author" shared it but didn't have the authority to do so (derivatives, etc)
Such as? I'm not saying there aren't any, but I suspect the consequences are shallower that expected. An author's request to remove legitimately shared art does not halt anyone from continuing to use it. It only halts people from continuing to get it from OGA. It is still listed in every user's download collection (who had already obtained it) and is legally and ethically usable to everyone who aquired it elsewhere or here-but-earlier. It doesn't even halt people from re-sharing the assets as a derivative here on OGA. That rule is not a statement or stance about ethical use of assets, it is a choice made by the admins to promote good will with authors.
The point is not that depression and self-harm is an allegory for open culture. It is this: If authors think we will share their content even when they do not want us to, even if it is the ethical thing to do, they will choose instead never to share with us in the first place out of fear of the undesireable consequences they may face later when it is no longer within their control.
There have been about 20-50 good (and legitimately shared) submissions that were removed at the author's request. This rule has caused the loss of 20-50 good assets.
There have been about 200-500 good (and legitimately shared) submissions that would not otherwise have ever been shared here on OGA, except for this rule. The artists hesitated to share, but when they were told they could request them taken down, they had no reason to balk at phantom fears. They submitted, people loved the art, their fears of misuse were seen to be unfounded, and the authors decided to share even more. This rule has caused the net gain of 150 (200 less 50) to 450 (500 less 50) great assets to be shared openly. This rule pays more than it costs. Figures are estimates based on my 10+ years of administration here, but they are not hyperbole. Again, this is not to convince anyone to change how they feel about open/libre licensing and sharing. I am 100% in agreement with the stance of irrevokable licenses are legal and ethical in perpetuity. This rule is not intended as a philosophy or to be adopted by individuals. It is specific to OGA. It has reason and considerable forethought for its implementation.
Just wanted to clarify that we aren't anti-FLOSS and are aware of the differences between having this rule as a volutary choice vs. any legal adherence to license or ethical quibbles about it.
--Medicine Storm
Nice parable, I don't think it would be good for me to comment on it here. (My views on censorship in name of "privacy" are available a few links away)
Well, if you allow to host proprietary art you will get even more art hosted here -- most people don't share their art here out of fear of sharing it under a free license. I would say let's just not host art of artists who are afraid of setting their art free. As an user of OGA art I would rather prefer to not even be in danger of downloading art of someone who wants to keep the priviledge of retroactively taking down the art -- these are the kinds of people who have a higher probability of starting to make trouble, despite free license. I would rather have fewer submissions on this site that are by people who mean it.
Anyway I don't think I will convice you of changing the rules or even your mind, no one on the Internet can be convinced about anything, I think it's even a named rule of something. I just feel obliged to leave my disagreement here, it's good to have it recorded and visible. We may leave this at agree to disagree :)
Also let me say I still love OGA, thank you for running it <3
___________________________________
Please share your art under CC0!
website: http://www.tastyfish.cz
liberapay: https://liberapay.com/drummyfish