$12256 / $11500
While I am only a sporadic visitor to this website I find myself saying the same things in my head each time I do.
Thoughts (in order): What amazing website design! Good art submissions. Very organized! Hey, I could make a game like this using that art right there! Maybe I should write that idea down..... *forgets details of idea* *idea seems less and less feasable* *idea lost*. Sigh, maybe next time I come I will think of something...
What if there was another section of this site for game design documents. In my mind I see programming as a glue that binds several ideas together most notably, art, sound, and plot. OGA has a space for art and sound but nowhere (but in this the writers forum) is a section for plot and game design documents have absolutely nowhere to call home. Even plots can be found on the internet here and there, but game design documents are found NOWHERE!
Is it possible for OGA to have a section for creative writing works for plot and game design documents?
Now, granted, I'm probably not going to contribute much to the section myself (considering I'm only a mediocre programmer and I fail at writing with any semblance of continuity) but It is my firm belief that if you build it, they will come. My own dream for OGA is that a bored programmer could show up one day and create an entire professional looking project only from art and ideas that are on OGA.
[disclaimer] The views and ideas expressed in this post are the sole opinion of the original poster and in no way reflect the views of any group, person, or organization on the internet.[/discalimer]
This website's content is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
I think you're right, there could be such a section just for consistency. But would it be used?
No.
Lots of people have ideas to make games - I even had before I knew to program. Way less poeple write those ideas down. From the written ideas, only a little part will be written in a way that others (programmers!) can understand it.
Even worse: most programmers will already have their own idea and want to stick to it. Other poeple that have a good idea and can program it will fear to post it because they think the idea could be "stolen" by others (especially commercials).
But these are just my toughts, it is absolutely possible that it doesn't reflect reality at all!
I don't get what you mean by "plots"
By plots I mean storyline, characters, settings, ect.
I guess your kind of right, your reasons seem logical, but isn't art also at fear of being 'stolen' by others? Does the GPL and other open licenses have the ability to be applied to writing so that credit must be given?
I'm not sure the GPL is necessarily appropriate for writing. If you want to require credit for a written work, I think CC-BY or CC-BY-SA would be a better way to go. That said, you can GPL pretty much anything -- it just doesn't completely make sense for things that aren't code.
Bart
The thing is if you go to the trouble of creating a game design document you file it away in the "Someday" pile. You wouldn't put it online for fear of being ripped off. I mean the document is the plan not the outcome. You don't plan and release, you do and then release.
Actually I think it may work for plots and character storys.
I know people that love to invent characters and their story, their abilities etc. just for fun, without having any programming skills.
Those little self-contained stories could very possibly be integrated in a few different games (be it as separate maps, campaigns, or just a sub-story in the main story) - lots of programmers have cool games in mind, but only the gameplay, not the story! (Usually, or at least not a good story, like they have no good art :-P) They could thus just choose some of the characters-stories uploaded here and stick them together as a story.
It would even be cool to see the same character with the same background-story in a few different opensource games, the player would think "hey cool here is my fav hero again". Some players would think "do these games collaborate or so?" and then look at the credits and come over to this page :D
I think this makes way more sense for such little plots than for whole game-design-documents!
As for the license, what's with the GNU Free Documentation License or something like that?
Re: Anonymous
Open Game Art isn't the place for people who want to keep their game art secret or proprietary. I don't see why game design documents should be different. You would put it online because you're not afraid of being ripped off; you own the copyright and you choose the license you're comfortable with.
I'm releasing my game design documents under GFDL and CC-BY-SA 3.0.
Strongly agree with pfunked. How many good game designs gets lost or stay unfinished because they get stuck in the "some other time" pile? In my opinion OGA's role is to champion the same values that the open source movement champions, but with everything game related and not just the source. If the attitudes are that bad, we need to change them, not accept them.
</stallman mode>
Glad that some people agree with me. In fact several of your arguments were ideas that simply never occured to me. Perhaps there is a strong future for creative writing on OGA after all.
I think this is a great idea. As a programmer, ideas are the hardest resource to come by. Because of this, I find myself making pointless clones of breakout, pong, and so on. A bank of well-planned CC-licensed game designs would not only help people like me start projects, it would be fun for the designers to see their ideas come to life.
There is, as others have said, a practical fear of being ripped off, but this is not the place for it. On this site, as with other places where CC/GPL/PD-licensed assets are shared, people share in good faith that their licenses will be honored. This is the most any of us can do.
If tetris can't stop tetris clones, what makes everyone here think they can stop idea's. The fundamental culture that open source sprang from was based on sharing idea's. Linux was reverse engineered... let the commercial games compete... that's a part of a free market... you just have to do it BETTER!!!!
Quote from a page: "Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed."
In short... the script is copyrighted... the concept of a boy falling down a well... not so much. Imagine if every idea that someone came up with was an idea you couldn't use... imagine how terrible that would be... imagine how bland the games would be. Every novel you ever read would suck!
No... what you'd need to protect a game design would be the evil blackness... the void of creativity incarnate... a patent. XD But... then even if someone came up with the same idea on their own... they'd be restricted from doing it... you'd become the essence of the enemy of open source it's self... completely proprietary... without an alternative or the possibility of an alternative under any other license.
The difference is patents don't just protect your idea's if stolen, they prevent someone else from using the same idea even if they have it on their own. c.c; Oh, you thought of that second... too bad... no game for you.
Though plot snippets aren't a bad idea. I just saw a sequel to a commercial game done by a community project (since they felt the original publisher abandoned it) and it was a horrible kludge of idea's done with no elegance, not only that but it lost the essence of the original game. That said... I don't think you shoudl just throw your idea's out here... I think you should write out your idea's and be willing to help a willing programmer flush them out.
But at the same time... if you don't have the creativity to make a game... find someone who does. I have idea's en masse... but I sort of need mine to pay for college. XD But I will give you one little tip... how I became creative... well... besides playing crazy imagination games... I learned to sing! Right off the top of my head... and out it flowed. Failing that... read a novel... think... or offer to create a game for someone.
Also, remember that WOW didn't do anything unique... not really... it was just another RPG... but it did great... and yet another strange RPG with a voxel engine and transdimensional probes failed so miserably I could bet money you'd never guess the name. (I won't, but I could.) Basically, start with a generic engine... and some NPC's.
(Actually, a few free npc's for everyone, not just those creating open source games, might get a few of the more creative sort here to drop some of their spare idea's. How about an all-ghost RPG for instance... There's an idea. The all ghost RPG. You never know what'll be a beautiful NPC and what will be a terrifying enemy!!! Travel through the spiritual realms, watch the cherry blossoms bloom, and try to figure out... what the **** the point of this game is. Yeah... no instruction manual... no hints... just explore and look for a path).
"Lost in a realm of eternal twilight, one soul searches for an answer to a question he does not yet know."
- Intro line, copyleft electroreactive, (and just for sheer spite) cc-by-sa-no deIf tetris can't stop tetris clones, what makes everyone here think they can stop idea's. The fundamental culture that open source sprang from was based on sharing idea's. Linux was reverse engineered... let the commercial games compete... that's a part of a free market... you just have to do it BETTER!!!!
Quote from a page: "Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed."
In short... the script is copyrighted... the concept of a boy falling down a well... not so much. Imagine if every idea that someone came up with was an idea you couldn't use... imagine how terrible that would be... imagine how bland the games would be.
No... what you'd need to protect a game design would be the evil blackness... the void of creativity incarnate... a patent. XD But... then even if someone came up with the same idea on their own... they'd be restricted from doing it... you'd become the essence of the enemy of open source it's self... completely proprietary... without an alternative or the possibility of an alternative under any other license.
The difference is patents don't just protect your idea's if stolen, they prevent someone else from using the same idea even if they have it on their own. c.c; Oh, you thought of that second... too bad... no game for you.
Though plot snippets aren't a bad idea. I just saw a sequel to a commercial game done by a community project (since they felt the original publisher abandoned it) and it was a horrible kludge of idea's done with no elegance, not only that but it lost the essence of the original game. That said... I don't think you shoudl just throw your idea's out here... I think you should write out your idea's and be willing to help a willing programmer flush them out.
But at the same time... if you don't have the creativity to make a game... find someone who does. I have idea's en masse... but I sort of need mine to pay for college. XD But I will give you one little tip... how I became creative... well... besides playing crazy imagination games... I learned to sing! Right off the top of my head... and out it flowed. Failing that... read a novel... think... or offer to create a game for someone.
Also, remember that WOW didn't do anything unique... not really... it was just another RPG... but it did great... and yet another strange RPG with a voxel engine and transdimensional probes failed so miserably I could bet money you'd never guess the name. (I won't, but I could.) Basically, start with a generic engine... and some NPC's.
(Actually, a few free npc's for everyone, not just those creating open source games, might get a few of the more creative sort here to drop some of their spare idea's. How about an all-ghost RPG for instance... There's an idea. The all ghost RPG. You never know what'll be a beautiful NPC and what will be a terrifying enemy!!! Travel through the spiritual realms, watch the cherry blossoms bloom, and try to figure out... what the **** the point of this game is. Yeah... no instruction manual... no hints... just explore and look for a path).
"Lost in a realm of eternal twilight, one soul searches for an answer to a question he does not yet know."
- Intro line, copyleft electroreactive, (and just for sheer spite) cc-by-sa-no derivs. (mwahaha!)
Kidding. BSD is my favorite license... but I'll go with something simpler.
Begin official:
Project Ghost (better name later)
"Lost in a realm of eternal twilight, one soul searches for an answer to a question he does not yet know."
License, cc by-nc (There, it's non-commercial for all those of you who want to make it.)
Note: I'd actually rather have a decent RPG for the Xbox 360... but I don't think a creative commons license works for that. XD
End official
The advantages of project ghost are simple, by using glowing balls instead of NPC's, you can skimp a bit. Second, only the upper half of NPC's need be drawn... and a blur filter can be used.
3rd... fog is encouraged... n.n Has copping out on art ever been easier? No... I think not... now get to work so I can play the frigging game already. :Privs. (mwahaha!)
And that's an idea I came up with on the spot to make your jobs easier... I can't wait to make my own game!!! Whee.
And yes, game design is an art... you can tell when it fails, though that's subjective. And sometimes the artists themselves are the worst judge... for example, my ghost idea could suck.
Begin official:
Project Ghost (better name later)
"Lost in a realm of eternal twilight, one soul searches for an answer to a question he does not yet know."
License, cc by-nc (There, it's non-commercial for all those of you who want to make it.)
Could have listed my name better, it's somewhere in the above document (guess you'll have to copy the whole post, and this one too) it's electroreactive... and that's my gmail address. n.n
Note: I'd actually rather have a decent RPG for the Xbox 360... but I don't think a creative commons license works for that. XD
End official
It might sound better with 'one lost soul' or... eh... good luck, I'll stop tinkering now.
I think with the sharing of ideas not only you can evolve ideas and get some feedback while your at it but maybe even get some support if they see you idea as worth it
I especially want to see characters concepts(even by describing them in text) locations mechanics details about the world and so on
It would really help to have some reference or inspirational material at hand to move the production
Also the mentality that your going to be ripped off is not necessarily true as I personally like my ideas to become realty even if its not by me
If we can link the home page that displays assets to a section in the forum where we discuss things we would all be set
The way paper & pen RPGs seem to work is selling books full of plot and such. If you are running such a game, you can pick up a book, and fit all of the story/design from it into your own game. Maybe stuff like that would be the most useful-not a full story, but part of one, that someone who already has a fixed idea can still use. If you can break a cool design into small useable chunks, that many more people can use it.
However, a lot of games that are open source aren't open art or open content.... and honestly, I would have liked to have seen a game like Tremulous get licensed. I feel like the publishing of an open source game might open the path for more. n.n Imagine playing Sauerbraten on the 360!!!! WOOT!
- Kodify
Though, open source libraries have made it into commercial games. n.n G3D GO!!!
As for the previous anonymous programmer who lacks idea's. That's not a problem for me... even my pac-man clone idea is so weird I'm actually rummaging through stream programming shader code to figure out how to do it. n.n Start coming up with one unique idea a day... just start putting so much information in that crazy idea's start coming out and they'll flow.... and flow.... and flow... and spill out on the floor... and make frogger clones called logger where you chase a crazy frog through a lumber mill trying to keep it from wrecking all your equipment.
Art is my problem... I need stuff that's CC-BY... the SA means I can't combine it with what I'm using... and usually I plan to keep my idea's... maybe write a novel or two from them.
- Kodify
Writers and artists both tend to be protective of their work. Writers more so because truly great idea's are hard to come by... and as long as they're an idea and not realized they're free for anyone to use... as I learned from my IPLaw course. I often find myself deleting idea's I was going to send... or reducing their number and copying them to a text file. In fact... XD I did it once in this post...
But at the same time I do give away idea's, and a forum like this doesn't hurt. But at the same time... it doesn't do to have a bunch of people using the same idea's. So... one thing that's fun to do is flash cards... madlibs style withprint-out sentences full of holes... the noun ate the noun. The bunny ate the tree....
Also, some authors need art... so what do they do if there's nothing cc-by, they accept what they can... do they sort it... probably not. Then, when they decide to release it open source... they realize there's a few pieces they have to remove and replace before they can distribute it. In the end... they release nothing. At the very least, creating something cc-by gives the author a choice... if his endeavor fails or is less successful than he originally intended.
Plot element... the characters are drawn together in a dark cave... some by fear...
"Just give me a torch and I'll go my own way."
"It's my torch... and I only have one."
Some by friendship... "You're cute..." "Shut up.." (halfling to the gnome) some for their own safety, "I don't like going alone..."
Extension of the above idea saving the dragon from the princess... imagine if the princess had been sent a nightmare by an evil sorcerer... about a dragon... now envision a world where all magic flows from dragons... and the death of one of the last good dragons will tip the balance and plunge the world into an age of darkness. The princess... supported by her new archmage.(the evil guy who sent the dream... though... you leave on a quest, discover the truth, and get back to find... you've been replaced as head wizard to the king)... soon becomes a tyrannical leader, leading an army towards the dragons sanctuary for it's ultimate destruction. Now... the reverse trope has a context.
I agree as well with the idea of being able to submit game ideas, dynamics and stories to OGA, they might not exactly be art by the definition, but it's a thing someone who would like to create a game would find helpful, if they are unable to create such sort of things - just as models or pictures.
Hey folks.
When we update to OGA 2.0, we'll also accept game documents and ideas along with other game-appropriate documentation.
Wait, we actually do now! I hadn't even noticed. That's an empty category indeed...