@BenCreating: good point about separate layers for new assets may be more of a hassle for creating new assets (or adopting existing ones). I was thinking that it would be ideal if it wasn't available just for base assets, but also for things like clothing, but perhaps that's false. Let me elaborate though.
What I personally look for is modularity and adaptability. I'm not a pixel artist, and modifying art for my specific purpose is easier if it's modular. Example: I made a "carry" animation from the walk cycle but with the arms raised. That was a bit of a hassle because I had to cut out the existing arms first and figure out what the torso should look like with the arms removed. It would have been easier if the arms had been on a separate layer to begin with. Having the arms separated also makes it easier to quickly make a mockup for a new animation, because you can just cut up the arms and move pixels around without worrying about fixing up the torso. Obviously, if all animations anyone could ever want were available by a proper pixel artist, that's not an issue, but realistically that's not going to happen.
I guess what I'd really like is something like an "open source library of pixel art", which to me means having not just the final sprites, but also to different layers the original author (may have) used to build the final sprite so that I can build on their work more easily.
From that perspective, I guess it's not so important to have arms on separate layers for each and every asset, as long as I have an easy way to tell the computer how to stack different layers and to tell it what pixels belong to the arms and which don't, so that I can layer a weapon (say) in front of the torso but behind the arm. I want to worry about what pixels go into my weapon, not what pixels I need to cut out in every frame to make it show up properly.
So for me personally, having arms, legs, heads and torsos available as separate layers from the base sprite would be really useful. Having it for cloting I would find nice, but optional and is probably impractical at best.
What I really like, and hadn't appreciated that I missed until now, are the coloured guides ElizaWy has on her new animations. Having those, perhaps in addition to some really basic clothing options (basic single colour ramp shading, no fluff or fine details) that show how things should animate would really help with making tweaks or additions.
Now, bluecarrot16 makes a good point about existing assets and new animations. It'd be a shame if it all had to be redone (probably not going to happen), but at the same time there are no assets available for things like the jump and running animations (this one: https://opengameart.org/content/lpc-runcycle-and-diagonal-walkcycle) partly because they're not part of the standard set and no one seems interested enough to add those in. So we're now getting to the situation where the extra animations are not useful because there are no clothing assets that work with them (and adjusting existing assets is a bit of a pain) and there's little point in making clothing assets work with those animations, because they're not standard or used as much.
One more thought to finish this novel off on. It's true that there can be multiple LPC characters that will work with the LPC tiles (in fact, there already are: https://opengameart.org/content/one-more-lpc-alternate-character; I thought there was more from this set, but perhaps not) and as such there is no reason not to have a "1.0" and "2.0" version. I will also say that having a set of more basic animations for enemy/NPC sprites and a more richly animated set of animations intended for player characters is not unreasonable. On the other hand, dividing resources (available artist time) over multiple sets rather than having a single good set is not good, and it's probably better to have one set with better variety. I guess I'm not sure what I think about that.
I have a few LPC character stuff that I've been working on in various stages of completion.
I merged the "unified spritesheet" with some of the extra animations, specifically the existing "grab" animation, the "run" animation and the "jump" animation. I've done some work on fitting shoes/trousers/shirts on those too. I'm not much of a pixel artist, let alone an animator, so it takes me a while to get something that looks ok, but I can certainly post those as a starting point to proceed from (they're not fully done; I keep thinking I'll have more time to work on it but things keep coming up). I also have a "carry" and "push" animation based on the normal walk cycle. The "grab" animation can work as a transition to the "push" animation.
I guess the things that I would like to see from the LPC bases fall in two categories: additional animations, and additional flexibility so it's easier to derive new sprites from them.
Number one on my wish-list and what I would really like to see and what I think would vastly improve the usability of the whole collection are separated layers for the different animations: head, torso, front arm, back arm, front leg, back leg. By ordering layers properly it becomes much easier to build up a complicated sprite. No need for special cut-outs for weapons, just layer them properly. No headache where the cutout of one item of clothing doesn't play nice with another item and you need to fiddle with the order (I can't remember what I had that issue with; might have been capes but it was a couple of years ago). It'll also be easier to make small changes to the animation, or build new animations by starting with moving body parts around.
This isn't particularly hard to do (I've done part of it anyway), but it is tedious.
What I would like next is a clearly documented set of instructions. Things like: what frame does the head bob on? How many pixels? What is the intended framerate for each animation? What frames are identical between different frames? What frames are simply mirrored? What things are there to look out for? Right now that is scattered in many different places.
Third on my wish-list is a more universal approach between the different bases. I think male and female heads are different? It's really silly to have a male and female version for the same headgear, even though it's easy to automate it. I find hands and feet similarly annoying. Is it possible to get at least hands and feet the same across the different bases, at least barbarian/male/female/pregnant/skeleton so they can all use the same weapon and footwear sprites?
Then we get to additional animations.
I like the idea of "lumberjack"/"chop", "farming", "smithing" animations (I guess a sideways and a forward two-handed smash as with an axe or a hammer could cover the first and the latter). Improved running/jumping animations would be neat as well.
Obviously I have a use for grab/push/carry animations, but I could also use a "pull" animation. The grab animation can serve as a transition to the "push" and "carry" animations, although the latter is a bit jerky. I use the third or fourth frame of the "cast" animation as a sleep "animation" (it's only a single frame, so...) There's probably something I forgot to add.
Oh, yes: swimming and sitting (mentioned above).
There are a few sets of "facial expressions" around that let you change the nose or mouth, or emote the eyes. I find none of them very convenient and satisfactory to use.
It would be neat of some of the more elaborate hair pieces were less static and things like braids actually swayed. Oh, and I've wanted a comically huge and long beard for ages (I suppose "Santa Claus beard" would be an adequate description, although "Panoramix" is a better one for those who know what I mean).
Finally: it's cool that work is already being done to extend the child bases to a full set of animations. I always figured they could be used to make dwarves as well, but I only ever got to the one frame as a proof-of-concept to myself.
Anyway, that's a long wall of text. Would it be convenient to organise what everyone is suggesting/working on and see who is willing to do what and in which order? I don't have a budget to spend on commissioning things, and as mentioned I'm not much of an artist and have limited time, but I'm willing to help as I can.
@ElizaWy: what are the odds! I was going through LPC stuff a couple of weeks ago when I came across some of your stuff (again). There was a fairly abrupt stop to the assets you posted and I remembered you had mentioned being ill at the time and clicked through to your blog link to see whether you had posted any updates there and found the link was dead. I had wondered what had happened (I had a good friend who was chronically and progressively ill pretty much since I met her and whenever I come across a story of someone who is ill, I'm curious to know if they're doing better). I know, random person on the internet saying stuff, but I'm glad to hear you're actually recovering (somewhat)!
I get what you're saying about the standardisation (or lack thereof) in the LPC palette. It's something we all struggle with. I'd be interested to see what you came up with, if and when you're up to posting that - but your health has to come first, so no pressure.
[quote]I've been wanting to create an updated and better standardized LPC collection, just so we'd have a source for clean LPC assets, that aren't missing animations, and all have the same selection of colors.[/quote]
I'm using an extended version of the LPC character spritesheet that also fits in the running, jumping and grab animations, as well as a push and carry animations I made myself. I've been planning to clean that up and post it here, along with any clothes I adapted to the new animations.
It looks something like the attached, but I messed up and merged some of the layers (meaning I don't have the base sprite for some of the modified animations).
Anyway, that should probably be left for a different thread so as not to derail this one into a general discussion on the LPC assets.
Congratulations on the Vagabond progress; I'm finding it hard to justify setting aside time for my own game, so progress has been slow there, but this encourages me to actually do something with it over the holidays. I should probably set up something like a devlog to record progress. Looks like we use a similar algorithm for casting shadows on cave walls!
My workflow for recolouring these things is similar to yours: just straight-up using colour reduction and selection+bucket fill in GIMP. I usually try to go for a five shade ramp, to match the ramps in the LPC palette, but sometimes that doesn't work out. The LPC palette has a few wider ramps, and a ton of shades that can slot in between shades on the five colour ramps. It's really odd in that way.
Sometimes I think I should have a go at simplifying the palette by merging similar colours and adding in some proper reds, but it's such a daunting task that I keep putting it off.
Working fine again, thanks!
It actually seems to be faster now than it was too (the time for reloading the list of collections the art is in is shorter), but that could just be random variation.
I wasn't even aware that there was another way to add items to a collection than through the button on the asset page! Regardless, I just tried it and it does nothing.
Yes. Yes, I did mean something quite exactly like that for the rocks.
I was tinkering with a couple of Lost Garden and Hyptosis tiles last night, trying to get the colour count down and matching the LPC style, which is a pain (or I just suck at it). It never looks quite right when I try to do that. You seem to have done a good job of it though.
I have the attached rocks (also by Hyptosis) also sitting in my collection, but I haven't tried to adjust the palette on those yet.
I understand the reasoning behind ruins or man-made objects going in a separate set. The thing is, there aren't actually that many of them. I thought there were a couple of obelisk like elements, crumbled walls and some megalithic structures (dolmen, menhirs) to find, but I came up empty. Looks like I was mistaken! Arguably though, some of those items in the rock set look like dolmen or menhirs.
Skorpio's set is indeed the main one that has any ruin-like objects in it, but I'm also not very fond of the main part of it, it looks too bland grey. Part of the issue may also be that it's not actually pixel art (they're LPC-styled vector graphics) which doesn't translate to detailed pixel art when rendered. I do like the Moai heads and columns that are in there (and some of the rocks, but you have those already). Attached are the recolours and cleanups I did of those.
Actually, come to think of it, I do have an idea for another type of collection: one with various types of rocks, megalithic objects and ruins. I'm reorganising my tilesets and I have quite a few of those in there, and browsing for what I may be missing I realised that there is no "proper" collection of those yet.
@BenCreating: good point about separate layers for new assets may be more of a hassle for creating new assets (or adopting existing ones). I was thinking that it would be ideal if it wasn't available just for base assets, but also for things like clothing, but perhaps that's false. Let me elaborate though.
What I personally look for is modularity and adaptability. I'm not a pixel artist, and modifying art for my specific purpose is easier if it's modular. Example: I made a "carry" animation from the walk cycle but with the arms raised. That was a bit of a hassle because I had to cut out the existing arms first and figure out what the torso should look like with the arms removed. It would have been easier if the arms had been on a separate layer to begin with. Having the arms separated also makes it easier to quickly make a mockup for a new animation, because you can just cut up the arms and move pixels around without worrying about fixing up the torso. Obviously, if all animations anyone could ever want were available by a proper pixel artist, that's not an issue, but realistically that's not going to happen.
I guess what I'd really like is something like an "open source library of pixel art", which to me means having not just the final sprites, but also to different layers the original author (may have) used to build the final sprite so that I can build on their work more easily.
From that perspective, I guess it's not so important to have arms on separate layers for each and every asset, as long as I have an easy way to tell the computer how to stack different layers and to tell it what pixels belong to the arms and which don't, so that I can layer a weapon (say) in front of the torso but behind the arm. I want to worry about what pixels go into my weapon, not what pixels I need to cut out in every frame to make it show up properly.
So for me personally, having arms, legs, heads and torsos available as separate layers from the base sprite would be really useful. Having it for cloting I would find nice, but optional and is probably impractical at best.
What I really like, and hadn't appreciated that I missed until now, are the coloured guides ElizaWy has on her new animations. Having those, perhaps in addition to some really basic clothing options (basic single colour ramp shading, no fluff or fine details) that show how things should animate would really help with making tweaks or additions.
Now, bluecarrot16 makes a good point about existing assets and new animations. It'd be a shame if it all had to be redone (probably not going to happen), but at the same time there are no assets available for things like the jump and running animations (this one: https://opengameart.org/content/lpc-runcycle-and-diagonal-walkcycle) partly because they're not part of the standard set and no one seems interested enough to add those in. So we're now getting to the situation where the extra animations are not useful because there are no clothing assets that work with them (and adjusting existing assets is a bit of a pain) and there's little point in making clothing assets work with those animations, because they're not standard or used as much.
One more thought to finish this novel off on. It's true that there can be multiple LPC characters that will work with the LPC tiles (in fact, there already are: https://opengameart.org/content/one-more-lpc-alternate-character; I thought there was more from this set, but perhaps not) and as such there is no reason not to have a "1.0" and "2.0" version. I will also say that having a set of more basic animations for enemy/NPC sprites and a more richly animated set of animations intended for player characters is not unreasonable. On the other hand, dividing resources (available artist time) over multiple sets rather than having a single good set is not good, and it's probably better to have one set with better variety. I guess I'm not sure what I think about that.
I have a few LPC character stuff that I've been working on in various stages of completion.
I merged the "unified spritesheet" with some of the extra animations, specifically the existing "grab" animation, the "run" animation and the "jump" animation. I've done some work on fitting shoes/trousers/shirts on those too. I'm not much of a pixel artist, let alone an animator, so it takes me a while to get something that looks ok, but I can certainly post those as a starting point to proceed from (they're not fully done; I keep thinking I'll have more time to work on it but things keep coming up). I also have a "carry" and "push" animation based on the normal walk cycle. The "grab" animation can work as a transition to the "push" animation.
I guess the things that I would like to see from the LPC bases fall in two categories: additional animations, and additional flexibility so it's easier to derive new sprites from them.
Number one on my wish-list and what I would really like to see and what I think would vastly improve the usability of the whole collection are separated layers for the different animations: head, torso, front arm, back arm, front leg, back leg. By ordering layers properly it becomes much easier to build up a complicated sprite. No need for special cut-outs for weapons, just layer them properly. No headache where the cutout of one item of clothing doesn't play nice with another item and you need to fiddle with the order (I can't remember what I had that issue with; might have been capes but it was a couple of years ago). It'll also be easier to make small changes to the animation, or build new animations by starting with moving body parts around.
This isn't particularly hard to do (I've done part of it anyway), but it is tedious.
What I would like next is a clearly documented set of instructions. Things like: what frame does the head bob on? How many pixels? What is the intended framerate for each animation? What frames are identical between different frames? What frames are simply mirrored? What things are there to look out for? Right now that is scattered in many different places.
Third on my wish-list is a more universal approach between the different bases. I think male and female heads are different? It's really silly to have a male and female version for the same headgear, even though it's easy to automate it. I find hands and feet similarly annoying. Is it possible to get at least hands and feet the same across the different bases, at least barbarian/male/female/pregnant/skeleton so they can all use the same weapon and footwear sprites?
Then we get to additional animations.
I like the idea of "lumberjack"/"chop", "farming", "smithing" animations (I guess a sideways and a forward two-handed smash as with an axe or a hammer could cover the first and the latter). Improved running/jumping animations would be neat as well.
Obviously I have a use for grab/push/carry animations, but I could also use a "pull" animation. The grab animation can serve as a transition to the "push" and "carry" animations, although the latter is a bit jerky. I use the third or fourth frame of the "cast" animation as a sleep "animation" (it's only a single frame, so...) There's probably something I forgot to add.
Oh, yes: swimming and sitting (mentioned above).
There are a few sets of "facial expressions" around that let you change the nose or mouth, or emote the eyes. I find none of them very convenient and satisfactory to use.
It would be neat of some of the more elaborate hair pieces were less static and things like braids actually swayed. Oh, and I've wanted a comically huge and long beard for ages (I suppose "Santa Claus beard" would be an adequate description, although "Panoramix" is a better one for those who know what I mean).
Finally: it's cool that work is already being done to extend the child bases to a full set of animations. I always figured they could be used to make dwarves as well, but I only ever got to the one frame as a proof-of-concept to myself.
Anyway, that's a long wall of text. Would it be convenient to organise what everyone is suggesting/working on and see who is willing to do what and in which order? I don't have a budget to spend on commissioning things, and as mentioned I'm not much of an artist and have limited time, but I'm willing to help as I can.
@ElizaWy: what are the odds! I was going through LPC stuff a couple of weeks ago when I came across some of your stuff (again). There was a fairly abrupt stop to the assets you posted and I remembered you had mentioned being ill at the time and clicked through to your blog link to see whether you had posted any updates there and found the link was dead. I had wondered what had happened (I had a good friend who was chronically and progressively ill pretty much since I met her and whenever I come across a story of someone who is ill, I'm curious to know if they're doing better). I know, random person on the internet saying stuff, but I'm glad to hear you're actually recovering (somewhat)!
I get what you're saying about the standardisation (or lack thereof) in the LPC palette. It's something we all struggle with. I'd be interested to see what you came up with, if and when you're up to posting that - but your health has to come first, so no pressure.
[quote]I've been wanting to create an updated and better standardized LPC collection, just so we'd have a source for clean LPC assets, that aren't missing animations, and all have the same selection of colors.[/quote]
I'm using an extended version of the LPC character spritesheet that also fits in the running, jumping and grab animations, as well as a push and carry animations I made myself. I've been planning to clean that up and post it here, along with any clothes I adapted to the new animations.
It looks something like the attached, but I messed up and merged some of the layers (meaning I don't have the base sprite for some of the modified animations).
Anyway, that should probably be left for a different thread so as not to derail this one into a general discussion on the LPC assets.
Congratulations on the Vagabond progress; I'm finding it hard to justify setting aside time for my own game, so progress has been slow there, but this encourages me to actually do something with it over the holidays. I should probably set up something like a devlog to record progress. Looks like we use a similar algorithm for casting shadows on cave walls!
Interesting, it seems that the site decided to eat my post.
Anyway, those statues are derived from other assets, namely IndigoFenix' Jade Cyclops (https://opengameart.org/content/jade-cyclops) and RedShrike's Imp (https://opengameart.org/content/lpc-imp) and Dark Soldier (https://opengameart.org/content/dark-soldier-for-valyria-tear). The Imp and Cyclops are just recolours, but the Dark Soldier needed some more editing. The original was 33 pixels wide, and the horns tapered to a one-pixel tip. That was impossible to make look good against a dark background, so I modified that to have an outline.
My workflow for recolouring these things is similar to yours: just straight-up using colour reduction and selection+bucket fill in GIMP. I usually try to go for a five shade ramp, to match the ramps in the LPC palette, but sometimes that doesn't work out. The LPC palette has a few wider ramps, and a ton of shades that can slot in between shades on the five colour ramps. It's really odd in that way.
Sometimes I think I should have a go at simplifying the palette by merging similar colours and adding in some proper reds, but it's such a daunting task that I keep putting it off.
Working fine again, thanks!
It actually seems to be faster now than it was too (the time for reloading the list of collections the art is in is shorter), but that could just be random variation.
I suppose I should throw these guys in as well. They're "statues", but could be adapted to a ruined set by adapting them into decayed versions.
I wasn't even aware that there was another way to add items to a collection than through the button on the asset page! Regardless, I just tried it and it does nothing.
I'm using Safari with the "Tale of Two Lands" collection (https://opengameart.org/content/tale-of-two-lands). It doesn't matter what asset I pick to add, none of them work, but let's say bluecarrot16's LPC terrain (https://opengameart.org/content/lpc-terrains). Sounds like it could be an issue with Safari though.
Yes. Yes, I did mean something quite exactly like that for the rocks.
I was tinkering with a couple of Lost Garden and Hyptosis tiles last night, trying to get the colour count down and matching the LPC style, which is a pain (or I just suck at it). It never looks quite right when I try to do that. You seem to have done a good job of it though.
I have the attached rocks (also by Hyptosis) also sitting in my collection, but I haven't tried to adjust the palette on those yet.
I understand the reasoning behind ruins or man-made objects going in a separate set. The thing is, there aren't actually that many of them. I thought there were a couple of obelisk like elements, crumbled walls and some megalithic structures (dolmen, menhirs) to find, but I came up empty. Looks like I was mistaken! Arguably though, some of those items in the rock set look like dolmen or menhirs.
Skorpio's set is indeed the main one that has any ruin-like objects in it, but I'm also not very fond of the main part of it, it looks too bland grey. Part of the issue may also be that it's not actually pixel art (they're LPC-styled vector graphics) which doesn't translate to detailed pixel art when rendered. I do like the Moai heads and columns that are in there (and some of the rocks, but you have those already). Attached are the recolours and cleanups I did of those.
Actually, come to think of it, I do have an idea for another type of collection: one with various types of rocks, megalithic objects and ruins. I'm reorganising my tilesets and I have quite a few of those in there, and browsing for what I may be missing I realised that there is no "proper" collection of those yet.
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