@mdwh: No, I cannot name another site that is as useful as OGA. Simply because I don't care about non-free sites, so I don't go there or know them.
I came to OGA via the LPC. The LPC put an emphasis on the art being open source. I was glad to fing a place that does it right and never noticed it does not extend to OGA, the organizer of the LPC.
Anyway, thanks everybody for clearing the misunderstanding.
If for a game to be open[1], you only require the engine to be open and not the art assets, then the game does not have special art asset requirements anymore: The same art can be used as for non-free games. Thus, you do not need a special site for art for such games.
So, if OGA has any purpose at all, it does not follow that interpretation.
[1] Above, I use "open" for the concept which is otherwise sometimes named "FLOSS", "FOSS", "free", "free as in speech", "libre" or "open source".
I did not write "useless" but "ultimately useless".
To stay with the case of music, here are some things you might want to edit at some point:
- Bugfix that one note which is G but should really be G#.
- Replace the guitar by a lute, because your setting is medieval.
- Speed up the whole song without changing pitch (SuperTux has that neat effect where, when you are about to run out of time, the background music speed doubles.).
- Adept the song to devices or formats other than those for which it was originally created, like different bit-depth, sampling rate, number of channels, dynamic range.
If you don't have the source, you cannot reasonably do the above (some of the above may be possible with a sacrifice in quality). Then, the song will eventually be obsoleted. It may have had some one-time, throw-away use. But in the end, it is dead matter. Nothing can grow from it. Hence, ultimately useless.
It is exactly the same as with sourceless programs. So if OGA users are fine with sourceless music, I wonder why they care about open games at all. Yes, denying sourceless art on OGA would turn away some artists. But for such art sites like FreeAsInBeerGameArt are a better fit anyway.
What does the O in OGA actually mean? I always understood it to stand for "open" as in "open source". That is, the author or a work enables the recipients to make derivative works (which would generally not be possible without the source form).
Hence, this thread is not really about the GPL. Independent of the license used, OGA should not accept any sourceless asset. Sourceless stuff is ultimately useless.
@gspliepen: In particular, I do not see anything to be gained from changing the license away from GPL.
Regarding spam and false positives, would it make sense to weigh reports by the reporter's trustworthyness, which in turn could be calculated from their history (or lack thereof) of false positives? So that reliable reporters get immediate attention, even if they are the only ones to report a specific spam entry.
@Joth:
Regarding points for comments, I always considered "talkative" as a kind of anti-medal, a blemish.
I think (not a native speaker here) the word itself has ambiguous connotations: helpful vs tiresome. This translates to points for comments. They can be obtained - as you point out - by spamming. But also by answering urgent questions, in which case I would fully support increasing the helper's reputation.
Personally, I dread the day when I obtain the silver talkative medal. Hence I try to make my posts count, so that at that time I have a handy apology.
No, duplicating tile 255 is not essential. For certain template sizes duplication of something is necessary. I always chose 255 among the duplicates, because from the tileset design perspective it is a plausible candiate for need of variations. I expect duplicating any other tile instead works just as well for generating templates.
True, 46 is not a prime. Still, a 2 by 23 template does not appeal much to me. In any case one would have to sacrifice one property that all templates had so far: The border was always empty. With a height (or width) of only 2 the property could not be maintained, because otherwise there would be no place for tiles like 85.
Going for 45 tiles (no 0 and no 255) instead works better:
Hundreds does not even start to describe the number of solutions. The solutions are sparse among the (mostly non-solution) configurations, that's why you couldn't find one manually. But they are numerous. So much, in fact, that I do not know the exact number. It would be infeasible to count them by brute force.
What I could do was to find solutions with one and three connected components (not counting the 0 tiles which, in my tileset, are connected components by themselves). Here they are in ASCII (use an even-width font like Courier to see them correctly):
@ mawigator:
Basically, what you propose is to add variations of the 0 and the 255 tile. Because to the outside, the tile you add is identical to 0 and I assume its inverse would be identical to 255.
I dug up the old program and got it to compute an (optimally symmetric) 7x7 pattern which duplicates 0 and 255 instead of 255 twice. Attached (only the version without numbers because I am lazy).
Duion:
> Other sources [of public domain] are work from US goverment employees that
> created something in their worktime which is paid by the goverment do not own
> their work and it becomes public domain, same goes for some science sectors.
@mdwh: No, I cannot name another site that is as useful as OGA. Simply because I don't care about non-free sites, so I don't go there or know them.
I came to OGA via the LPC. The LPC put an emphasis on the art being open source. I was glad to fing a place that does it right and never noticed it does not extend to OGA, the organizer of the LPC.
Anyway, thanks everybody for clearing the misunderstanding.
Bye.
If for a game to be open[1], you only require the engine to be open and not the art assets, then the game does not have special art asset requirements anymore: The same art can be used as for non-free games. Thus, you do not need a special site for art for such games.
So, if OGA has any purpose at all, it does not follow that interpretation.
[1] Above, I use "open" for the concept which is otherwise sometimes named "FLOSS", "FOSS", "free", "free as in speech", "libre" or "open source".
I did not write "useless" but "ultimately useless".
To stay with the case of music, here are some things you might want to edit at some point:
- Bugfix that one note which is G but should really be G#.
- Replace the guitar by a lute, because your setting is medieval.
- Speed up the whole song without changing pitch (SuperTux has that neat effect where, when you are about to run out of time, the background music speed doubles.).
- Adept the song to devices or formats other than those for which it was originally created, like different bit-depth, sampling rate, number of channels, dynamic range.
If you don't have the source, you cannot reasonably do the above (some of the above may be possible with a sacrifice in quality). Then, the song will eventually be obsoleted. It may have had some one-time, throw-away use. But in the end, it is dead matter. Nothing can grow from it. Hence, ultimately useless.
It is exactly the same as with sourceless programs. So if OGA users are fine with sourceless music, I wonder why they care about open games at all. Yes, denying sourceless art on OGA would turn away some artists. But for such art sites like FreeAsInBeerGameArt are a better fit anyway.
What does the O in OGA actually mean? I always understood it to stand for "open" as in "open source". That is, the author or a work enables the recipients to make derivative works (which would generally not be possible without the source form).
Hence, this thread is not really about the GPL. Independent of the license used, OGA should not accept any sourceless asset. Sourceless stuff is ultimately useless.
@gspliepen: In particular, I do not see anything to be gained from changing the license away from GPL.
The same goes for Debian.
@MedicineStorm:
Regarding spam and false positives, would it make sense to weigh reports by the reporter's trustworthyness, which in turn could be calculated from their history (or lack thereof) of false positives? So that reliable reporters get immediate attention, even if they are the only ones to report a specific spam entry.
@Joth:
Regarding points for comments, I always considered "talkative" as a kind of anti-medal, a blemish.
I think (not a native speaker here) the word itself has ambiguous connotations: helpful vs tiresome. This translates to points for comments. They can be obtained - as you point out - by spamming. But also by answering urgent questions, in which case I would fully support increasing the helper's reputation.
Personally, I dread the day when I obtain the silver talkative medal. Hence I try to make my posts count, so that at that time I have a handy apology.
Sorry for misreading you. Yes, that is possible:
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|..|..|..............|
|..|..|..............|
o--o--o--o.....o--o--o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o...........o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o........o........o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o.....o..o--o--o.....o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o..o..o.....o..o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o..o........o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|..|..............|..|
|..|..............|..|
o--o--o--o.....o--o--o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o...........o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o........o........o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o.....o..o--o--o.....o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o..o..o.....o..o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o..o........o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|..|..............|..|
|..|..............|..|
o--o--o..o.....o--o--o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o...........o--o..o
|....................|
|....................|
o..o........o........o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o.....o..o--o--o.....o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o..o..o.....o..o..o..o
|..|..|..............|
|..|..|..............|
o--o..o........o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|..|..............|..|
|..|..............|..|
o--o--o........o..o--o
|..|...........|.....|
|..|...........|.....|
o..o..o..o.....o..o--o
|....................|
|....................|
o.....o..o--o........o
|........|...........|
|........|...........|
o........o........o..o
|....................|
|....................|
o..o--o..o........o..o
|.................|..|
|.................|..|
o--o..o.....o..o--o..o
|..|..|..............|
|..|..|..............|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
No, duplicating tile 255 is not essential. For certain template sizes duplication of something is necessary. I always chose 255 among the duplicates, because from the tileset design perspective it is a plausible candiate for need of variations. I expect duplicating any other tile instead works just as well for generating templates.
True, 46 is not a prime. Still, a 2 by 23 template does not appeal much to me. In any case one would have to sacrifice one property that all templates had so far: The border was always empty. With a height (or width) of only 2 the property could not be maintained, because otherwise there would be no place for tiles like 85.
Going for 45 tiles (no 0 and no 255) instead works better:
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|...........|..|...........|
|...........|..|...........|
o.....o..o--o..o..o........o
|..........................|
|..........................|
o..o.....o--o...........o..o
|..|.....|.................|
|..|.....|.................|
o..o.....o--o..o..o.....o..o
|...........|..............|
|...........|..............|
o.....o..o..o..o..o........o
|...........|..|...........|
|...........|..|...........|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
@ Guy:
Hundreds does not even start to describe the number of solutions. The solutions are sparse among the (mostly non-solution) configurations, that's why you couldn't find one manually. But they are numerous. So much, in fact, that I do not know the exact number. It would be infeasible to count them by brute force.
What I could do was to find solutions with one and three connected components (not counting the 0 tiles which, in my tileset, are connected components by themselves). Here they are in ASCII (use an even-width font like Courier to see them correctly):
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|........|........|..|
|........|........|..|
o..o..o--o--o.....o--o
|....................|
|....................|
o..o........o.....o..o
|..|..............|..|
|..|..............|..|
o--o..............o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o..o..o........o.....o
|....................|
|....................|
o........o--o..o..o..o
|........|...........|
|........|...........|
o--o..o--o.....o..o..o
|..|.................|
|..|.................|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
|..|.....|...........|
|..|.....|...........|
o..o--o--o........o..o
|..|..|..|...........|
|..|..|..|...........|
o--o--o--o--o.....o..o
|...........|........|
|...........|........|
o..o..o.....o........o
|....................|
|....................|
o.....o..o...........o
|....................|
|....................|
o..o..o..o........o..o
|.................|..|
|.................|..|
o..o........o..o--o..o
|....................|
|....................|
o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o
@ mawigator:
Basically, what you propose is to add variations of the 0 and the 255 tile. Because to the outside, the tile you add is identical to 0 and I assume its inverse would be identical to 255.
I dug up the old program and got it to compute an (optimally symmetric) 7x7 pattern which duplicates 0 and 255 instead of 255 twice. Attached (only the version without numbers because I am lazy).
Duion:
> Other sources [of public domain] are work from US goverment employees that
> created something in their worktime which is paid by the goverment do not own
> their work and it becomes public domain, same goes for some science sectors.
As far as I understand, such works are only public domain in the US. Recipients outside the US do not benefit from the copyright exemption. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_work_by_the_U.S._gover... for details.
I am not a lawyer and the above is not legal advice.
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