@Spring: Yeah, feeling like a hypocrite over hear because I'm really enjoying reading about everyone elses' projects but I realize I really haven't said much about my own. Mostly that's just because I've been so nose down working on it, I haven't been up for air enough to post any progress updates. But I can't it's also partly a bit of playing secret squirrel on my part. I always like to wait until things are good and ready before I show anything. But at the risk of ruining all the surprise, here's a little teaser for how things are working out for Yulpers...
@all: Stop dumping on Game Maker! You're making me feel good about sticking to my goofy home-brew engine, I just know that can't be right! :) If it helps, I just lost 2 hrs of precious time in the home stretch here because I changed the font for my in-game menus and my crappy home-made GUI code requires me to hand place all that stuff by twiddling text files until your head explodes. Then I lost another hour hand drawing a new button because I needed a wider one to fit the word 'YES' on it.
PS:
Whoops, I totally mapped jump to the space bar and yulp to ctrl! Sorry, didn't mean to make anybody shudder! I've added mappings for x and z so hopefully that washes my sins a bit. Would love to do user customizable controls but definitely out of time for that now.
Monday, July 23, 2018 - 07:55
@Spring & VinnNo.0:
Don't worry guys, trust me everyone is making lots of cuts and compromises in order to make the Jam deadline.
Good news is most folks voting on the Jam will totally understand. I personally give consideration to ambition when I vote for entries.
And seriously VinnNo.0, if what you submit is even a 10th of what appears in that WIP video on itch.io, you got nothing to worry about!
@JenosaidoZombie: Welcome! Glad to have you aboard!
@All: My entry is coming along, but definitely feeling the crunch this week. A month seemed like an enternity on July 1, but darned if nothing eats time like game development!
Don't I wish! Hitting crunch time myself, got a lot left to do and just a few days to do it as I will be traveling all weekend. Think it'll be worth it though, definitely feeling the magic on this one. :)
@Spring: Guessing whose going to win the jam could be a game in itself! So there's another idea for you for the next time ;)
@Vimm.No: Don't feel the least bit guilty, you are doing exactly what we were all told to do! Seriously, it's obvious you made really, really good use of all the prep time we were given, and I totally applaud you for that! Pre-production is no joke. Aside from being a lot of work, it takes a lot of vision to be able to plot out a game in advance. Most folks just get an idea and then start tinkering to see where it goes. I know that's my usual style. So hat's off to you for being so organized and being able to 'see' so much of your game before you were able to play any of it.
@Spring: yay! glad to hear it! Also that credits list looks good to me, bonus points if you could squeeze an OGA reference in there, like maybe:
'Uses graphics from OpenGameArt.org by'
But honestly, what you have is fine. TBH, that's a great way to phrase it, gives proper credit but doesn't imply any association with the artists. I'll switch to something like that for my credits.
@Saliv: No worries. I see what you mean. It's not really a tough requirement to fufill but it could definitely prove tricky for a novice dev. Especially trying to include the credits in the actual game. I can see where for a new-comer the whole idea could sound kind of intimidating. It's the kind of thing that once you've done it a few times you learn what's involved and can see that's it's really no big deal, but that first time, when you are also struggling to get all the other pieces of your game together, I could see where it might be stressful to think about.
Reading the actual legalese, it seems less restictive than the summary. The legal code just says you can't imply association, it doesn't really go into what would or wouldn't do that. It's the summary that suggests simply listing an authors name under 'graphics' would imply association or endorsement.
It's an interesting dilema. If someone took my 'Muckety Mudsucker' pack and used it to make some kind of offensive, exploitive crapola then I'm not sure I'd want my name under 'Special Thanks' let alone 'Graphics' where it might well imply I was a team member and party to the project. On the otherhand, if someone took the same art pack and actually made it into a classic blue-sky platformer, and I was the sort to care (which I'm not) I might be a little miffed to see my name given the 'Special Thanks' treatment instead of properly listed under 'Graphics'.
Thinking on it some, the best solution I can think of is from the literary world, where citations are standardized, common and never taken as implying any kind of endorsement or association. And I guess in our world, giving the fully formed 'credit' with the name of the work, a link to it, etc. etc. kind of does have a similar effect.
And again, no worries, you haven't harmed this thread a bit. Afterall no thread on OGA is complete without some kind of license discussion. ;)
@MayorOfGaming: Looks good! You are smart to set a good doable scope for you Jam game, personally I'm thinking I need to table a bunch of ideas I had for Yulpers if I want to have anything reasonably complete ready by the 30th. But that's ok, they're all going on a list for Yulpers 2! :)
@Spring: So is your Arkanoid RPG still on for the jam? Hope we didn't lose it, excited to see how it turns out.
@chasersgaming: wow, so you didn't just check that 6 works were credited, you actually went through and tried to verify that they were all used in the actual game somewhere?
And I agree, seeing the names and works displayed in the actual game is the best for the original authors and also for promoting OGA in general. I was just thinking about it in terms of what form would make it easiest to check the assets. TBH, I think it would be fair to require both next year. So some sort of in-game credit AND include a CREDITS.txt file with your game distribution. Since OGA generates the CREDITS.TXT file for folks, it really shouldn't be a big deal to ask that they toss a copy in with the game.
When the entries come in, go ahead and assign a few (half or more if you like) to me to verify and I'd be happy to take them off your plate. You can PM about the details of how we could work this out, but I'd be more than happy to help out. Seems only fair as you've put so much work into getting these Jams up and going.
Tuesday, July 10, 2018 - 14:11
@all: License requirements/issues aside, the natural reason for the Jam to require entries cite all the assets they use is because it requires 6 (or more) OGA assets be used. So basically, crediting the assets you use is essential for verifying that the primary condition of the Jam is met.
@chasersgaming: Speaking of which, I didn't realize you went and verified all the assets for last year's submissions. Two comments about that. First, if it were me, a CREDITS.TXT file would actually be close to the ideal format for assets to be listed in. Much better than trying to read/click anything in game itself.
Second, that seems like alot of work! I would more than willing to help out with it this year, just let me know. I'll be playing all the entries anyway, so happy to verify the assets for them as well.
I have peronsally used this technique before in the demo for Instant Dungeon! I put a 'Learn More!' button in the game that just uses this technique to open a browser to the official game web page.
Sure the procedure is pretty similar in other languages.
Anyway, chasersgaming has said this is just a 'nice to have' feature, not a requirement.
> "everyone has either reached some difficulties or is playing too small"
Think Saliv was just saying that we've all had struggles making these games, and if not it's because we were aiming too low.
@Saliv: Giving proper credit is not as difficult as it might seem at first. In fact, OGA's 'collection' feature makes it quite easy. Here's what I did for my entry into last year's jam:
1) Created a new collection called 'Instant Pixel Palette Scramble! Assets' 2) Added each of the assets I used to the collection (open asset's page on OGA, click 'Add to Collection' button on left hand side) 3) Viewed collection in OGA (Collect->My Collections from menu at top of any OGA page) 4) Downloaded credits file for collection. (click 'Download Credits File' link at bottom of collection page) 5) Pasted contents of credits file into README.txt file included with the game.
In my case, I also included the contents of the credits file in the 'Credits' sequence of the game. I also did some trivial reformatting of the credits text to sort it by category and make it look a little nicer in the credits sequence.
Both those steps are optional though. In general, it is enough to simply include the credits file with the game distribution.
Funny about that CC-BY-3.0 text though. Rules 7 & 8 would seem to be in direct conflict. 'Special Thanks' is generally considered a lesser credit to 'graphics' or 'music' etc.
Testing
@Spring: Yeah, feeling like a hypocrite over hear because I'm really enjoying reading about everyone elses' projects but I realize I really haven't said much about my own. Mostly that's just because I've been so nose down working on it, I haven't been up for air enough to post any progress updates. But I can't it's also partly a bit of playing secret squirrel on my part. I always like to wait until things are good and ready before I show anything. But at the risk of ruining all the surprise, here's a little teaser for how things are working out for Yulpers...
@all: Stop dumping on Game Maker! You're making me feel good about sticking to my goofy home-brew engine, I just know that can't be right! :) If it helps, I just lost 2 hrs of precious time in the home stretch here because I changed the font for my in-game menus and my crappy home-made GUI code requires me to hand place all that stuff by twiddling text files until your head explodes. Then I lost another hour hand drawing a new button because I needed a wider one to fit the word 'YES' on it.
PS:
Whoops, I totally mapped jump to the space bar and yulp to ctrl! Sorry, didn't mean to make anybody shudder! I've added mappings for x and z so hopefully that washes my sins a bit. Would love to do user customizable controls but definitely out of time for that now.
@Spring & VinnNo.0:
Don't worry guys, trust me everyone is making lots of cuts and compromises in order to make the Jam deadline.
Good news is most folks voting on the Jam will totally understand. I personally give consideration to ambition when I vote for entries.
And seriously VinnNo.0, if what you submit is even a 10th of what appears in that WIP video on itch.io, you got nothing to worry about!
@JenosaidoZombie: Welcome! Glad to have you aboard!
@All: My entry is coming along, but definitely feeling the crunch this week. A month seemed like an enternity on July 1, but darned if nothing eats time like game development!
> give yourself a break if you need one!
Don't I wish! Hitting crunch time myself, got a lot left to do and just a few days to do it as I will be traveling all weekend. Think it'll be worth it though, definitely feeling the magic on this one. :)
@Spring: Guessing whose going to win the jam could be a game in itself! So there's another idea for you for the next time ;)
@Vimm.No: Don't feel the least bit guilty, you are doing exactly what we were all told to do! Seriously, it's obvious you made really, really good use of all the prep time we were given, and I totally applaud you for that! Pre-production is no joke. Aside from being a lot of work, it takes a lot of vision to be able to plot out a game in advance. Most folks just get an idea and then start tinkering to see where it goes. I know that's my usual style. So hat's off to you for being so organized and being able to 'see' so much of your game before you were able to play any of it.
Yulpers is coming along well. Or at least I though so until I got a look at Vinn.No project!
Yikes! Time to step up my game I guess! :)
@Spring: yay! glad to hear it! Also that credits list looks good to me, bonus points if you could squeeze an OGA reference in there, like maybe:
'Uses graphics from OpenGameArt.org by'
But honestly, what you have is fine. TBH, that's a great way to phrase it, gives proper credit but doesn't imply any association with the artists. I'll switch to something like that for my credits.
@Saliv: No worries. I see what you mean. It's not really a tough requirement to fufill but it could definitely prove tricky for a novice dev. Especially trying to include the credits in the actual game. I can see where for a new-comer the whole idea could sound kind of intimidating. It's the kind of thing that once you've done it a few times you learn what's involved and can see that's it's really no big deal, but that first time, when you are also struggling to get all the other pieces of your game together, I could see where it might be stressful to think about.
Reading the actual legalese, it seems less restictive than the summary. The legal code just says you can't imply association, it doesn't really go into what would or wouldn't do that. It's the summary that suggests simply listing an authors name under 'graphics' would imply association or endorsement.
It's an interesting dilema. If someone took my 'Muckety Mudsucker' pack and used it to make some kind of offensive, exploitive crapola then I'm not sure I'd want my name under 'Special Thanks' let alone 'Graphics' where it might well imply I was a team member and party to the project. On the otherhand, if someone took the same art pack and actually made it into a classic blue-sky platformer, and I was the sort to care (which I'm not) I might be a little miffed to see my name given the 'Special Thanks' treatment instead of properly listed under 'Graphics'.
Thinking on it some, the best solution I can think of is from the literary world, where citations are standardized, common and never taken as implying any kind of endorsement or association. And I guess in our world, giving the fully formed 'credit' with the name of the work, a link to it, etc. etc. kind of does have a similar effect.
And again, no worries, you haven't harmed this thread a bit. Afterall no thread on OGA is complete without some kind of license discussion. ;)
@MayorOfGaming: Looks good! You are smart to set a good doable scope for you Jam game, personally I'm thinking I need to table a bunch of ideas I had for Yulpers if I want to have anything reasonably complete ready by the 30th. But that's ok, they're all going on a list for Yulpers 2! :)
@Spring: So is your Arkanoid RPG still on for the jam? Hope we didn't lose it, excited to see how it turns out.
@chasersgaming: wow, so you didn't just check that 6 works were credited, you actually went through and tried to verify that they were all used in the actual game somewhere?
And I agree, seeing the names and works displayed in the actual game is the best for the original authors and also for promoting OGA in general. I was just thinking about it in terms of what form would make it easiest to check the assets. TBH, I think it would be fair to require both next year. So some sort of in-game credit AND include a CREDITS.txt file with your game distribution. Since OGA generates the CREDITS.TXT file for folks, it really shouldn't be a big deal to ask that they toss a copy in with the game.
When the entries come in, go ahead and assign a few (half or more if you like) to me to verify and I'd be happy to take them off your plate. You can PM about the details of how we could work this out, but I'd be more than happy to help out. Seems only fair as you've put so much work into getting these Jams up and going.
@all: License requirements/issues aside, the natural reason for the Jam to require entries cite all the assets they use is because it requires 6 (or more) OGA assets be used. So basically, crediting the assets you use is essential for verifying that the primary condition of the Jam is met.
@chasersgaming: Speaking of which, I didn't realize you went and verified all the assets for last year's submissions. Two comments about that. First, if it were me, a CREDITS.TXT file would actually be close to the ideal format for assets to be listed in. Much better than trying to read/click anything in game itself.
Second, that seems like alot of work! I would more than willing to help out with it this year, just let me know. I'll be playing all the entries anyway, so happy to verify the assets for them as well.
@Spring: Pretty sure opening a browser to a URL is a as simple as 'launching' the url as a new process. Here's how to do it in C#:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4580263/how-to-open-in-default-brows...
I have peronsally used this technique before in the demo for Instant Dungeon!
I put a 'Learn More!' button in the game that just uses this technique to open a browser to the official game web page.
Sure the procedure is pretty similar in other languages.
Anyway, chasersgaming has said this is just a 'nice to have' feature, not a requirement.
> "everyone has either reached some difficulties or is playing too small"
Think Saliv was just saying that we've all had struggles making these games, and if not it's because we were aiming too low.
@Saliv: Giving proper credit is not as difficult as it might seem at first. In fact, OGA's 'collection' feature makes it quite easy.
Here's what I did for my entry into last year's jam:
1) Created a new collection called 'Instant Pixel Palette Scramble! Assets'
2) Added each of the assets I used to the collection (open asset's page on OGA, click 'Add to Collection' button on left hand side)
3) Viewed collection in OGA (Collect->My Collections from menu at top of any OGA page)
4) Downloaded credits file for collection. (click 'Download Credits File' link at bottom of collection page)
5) Pasted contents of credits file into README.txt file included with the game.
In my case, I also included the contents of the credits file in the 'Credits' sequence of the game.
I also did some trivial reformatting of the credits text to sort it by category and make it look a little nicer in the credits sequence.
Both those steps are optional though. In general, it is enough to simply include the credits file with the game
distribution.
Funny about that CC-BY-3.0 text though. Rules 7 & 8 would seem to be in direct conflict. 'Special Thanks' is generally considered a lesser credit to 'graphics' or 'music' etc.
Pages