I agree it is morally sound to automatically add the upgraded version of licenses anywhere the author checked the "allow later version..." box. The technological feasibility is ... not impossible, but it will take some work to get a script in place to handle something like that.
There are several features of the site that are in need of address. Namely, the fact the aforementioned checkbox is not visible to anyone but admins and the submitter, plus the broken "is this your work?" feature. In addition, I look forward to seeing a quick "copy attribution text to clipboard" button and some form of automatic derivative linking.
Interestingly, any CC-BY-SA 3.0 license can be upgraded to CC-BY-SA 4.0 already, even without the "allow later versions..." checkbox; -SA has an upgrade clause built-in, but CC-BY does not. :/
All this being said, this may be less of a risk here than many suspect/fear, for several reasons:
As many of you have pointed out, this is predominantly affecting stock images. Copyleft trolls have a lot harder time automating the process of identifying content from OGA being used in the wild since most of it is being used in video games. As of yet, there is no "reverse video game lookup" like there is for stock images.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the "minor attribution errors" are the very thing we're obsessively clear about. Although it would be ideal to have a quick "attribution text" button, the suggested attribution guidelines in the FAQ are highly resistant to the kind of thing the article is talking about. I have no idea how often people follow those guidelines, but provided you do follow them, you have very little to worry about.
Thirdly, I (and many of you) watch for bad experiences coming back to OGA. Any time someone says something like "I used this in a youtube video, but I got a content ID strike" You can be sure I take notice. It doesn't mean the submitter is a copyleft troll. Sometimes it's just a mistake. But we always take them down immediately until it's resolved. If anyone comes across a "bad experience" leading from OGA in your internet travels, let me know right away. We've seen a few copyright trolls, and they were quickly dealt with, but I have yet to encounter even a rumor of copyleft trolling on OGA. Let me know if you see something suspicious.
Lastly, if you think you may be the target of a copyleft/right troll, inform me so that I may unleash the full force of righteous wrath upon the evildoers! We have access to legal resources, and my rage fuels pro-bono defenses.
Nah, it's not bad. It's the site saying "Umplix, what are you even doing? I don't know what to do with an .mp3 file attached to a comment!" because it wants to be able to play the file right from the forum, but it isn't allowed to have an MP3 codec, only OGG. We're working on overhauling the site so it isn't so grumpy about stuff like that. :P
Please note that I am unable to tally votes properly unless your entry is tagged with both LPC, 2022. If it doesn't show up in this search, it may not get counted.
I don't know what to tell you, hon. I have a copy of the unrevised text. Whatever you copied wasn't the original, nor the current iteration. This is the truth, but I doubt I can convince you of that. Bit hypocritical of you to accuse others of gaslighting.
"Let's say I am a 'sexist troll.' Does that magically mean people can tell me to commit suicide?"
Nope. But it does tell us what kind of person you are. Ragnar regrets what he said. You don't. I think you need to reread what I wrote. I was very clear about not excusing Ragnar's comment. Accepting an apology doesn't mean being ok with the sin that prompted it. I can criticize your behavior and not excuse his at the same time. There is no "angrier" about anyone's statement. This isn't a contest about who made the more offensive statement. It is about who is disturbing the peace on this site. You're the only one left that isn't ready to leave it alone.
I am happy to discuss any part of this and explain what I can to your satisfaction via PM with me. You can express your greivances there to your heart's content, and I will do my best to resolve any unfairness. You can even be as offensive as you want toward me and suffer no repercussions. However, the conversation will not continue here on this thread. It is off topic and not heading toward a resolution.
No. It didn't. Server logs retain the original message as first submitted. The original text did not contain the word "hero" anywhere. The original text is identical to the current text.
"I was told by Ragnar to commit suicide and he wasn't banned."
Nor were you... yet. The warning was for everyone. You'll note I explicitly singled his comment out in addtion to my other warning. Yes, that is bad. And he apologized. Apologies do count when they're sincere. It doesn't innoculate people from consequences for continued bad behavior, but they are taken into consideration. He also said "IF you are ... a sexist troll"; If you feel he told you to commit suicide, are you admitting to being a sexist troll? That doesn't excuse the langauge he used, but I also have yet to see any sort of attempt from you to find accord here. Are you looking for clarification about the challenge's parameters or are you looking for confrontation?
This thread was getting dangerously close to "flame war potential", but Ragnar has done a decent job de-escalating things to some degree.
@Ragnar: I wouldn't say gender/reproductive identity is a political topic, but it is often politicised. This puts this challenge in a position of riding the line on the "no politics" rule. Please continue to be careful with it. If it does devolve into political discussions or a hateful flame war, I will need to lock the topic. Inviting people to commit suicide is not a good direction. You did apologize and recognize that, so thank you.
@Zombietom: If Ragnar is guilty of lumping you in with an undesireable group, it seems you're guilty of the same thing. Ragnar did not call you sexist or troll. He politely drew attention back to the distinct absence of a gender-specific term. Yes, it is clear there was a misunderstanding about what you were saying, but what you were saying was not super clear to begin with. Try to extend the same courtesy of avoiding negative assumptions you're asking of others. And keep the language civil, even in a disagreement.
@Ephesians: I'm having a hard time faulting Ragnar's conclusions about your intent here. The only thing I can think of that would explain away the apparent sexism or trolling is Zombietom's semantic argument, but that doesn't really mesh with your second comment about confusion over the meaning of 'non-traditional interpretations'. The options I can see are: 1) you're being semantic, 2) you're confused about the terms, or 3) you're being sexist/troll. If you're being semantic, you can't really claim confusion, and vice versa. I don't buy that you're concerned about what qualifies your potential submissions for bonus points after Ragnar explicitly said points mean nothing. Find a way to ask for clarification without being confrontational. Hateful behavior (like sexism) and trolls get banned.
"how about some sort of community support forum for tirnanog in the future?"
If @MedicineStorm agrees to that, I'd be very happy to do it!
Starting out the best way to do that is simply start a thread like "TirNanoG support" in the OGA community Projects forum (or perhaps the Programming forum if you don't consider this a project for OGA).
Once the project has a full featured editor and player (as is the plan) and gains a bit more momentum, I'll look into adding a separate TirNanoG Project forum like we have for FLARE.
Thank you for your feedbacks! But is there anyone volunteering to redraw the icons...?
Good point. Apologies for pulling the thread off-topic. Further discussion of troubleshooting the TirNanoG engine or trademark weirdness should probably be done in a separate thread.
@Artists! Looking for a designer to give a consistent look'n'feel for the TirNanoG Editor's icons.
Yeah, that trademark is so stupid. I'm sure your usage of them would be perfectly fine (monichrome or otherwise), especially since the plan is to have playstation be one of the available platforms, correct? The difference is your usage probably falls within the "fair use" mentioned by that disclaimer, but our hosting it on OGA under a CC0 license doesn't pass muster.
Regardless, Ragnar's suggestion is also solid (A, B, X, and Y... which cannot be trademarked) and buttons for them can also be found in that same pack.
Don't forget to include a link to your engine in the request! Seeing what you've got will help attract more artists. :)
P.S: Based on the logo, I was reading the name as "Tirna Nog" instead of "Tir Nano G". I assume "nano" for its portability and G for Gnu Public License, but what is "tir"?
I agree it is morally sound to automatically add the upgraded version of licenses anywhere the author checked the "allow later version..." box. The technological feasibility is ... not impossible, but it will take some work to get a script in place to handle something like that.
There are several features of the site that are in need of address. Namely, the fact the aforementioned checkbox is not visible to anyone but admins and the submitter, plus the broken "is this your work?" feature. In addition, I look forward to seeing a quick "copy attribution text to clipboard" button and some form of automatic derivative linking.
Interestingly, any CC-BY-SA 3.0 license can be upgraded to CC-BY-SA 4.0 already, even without the "allow later versions..." checkbox; -SA has an upgrade clause built-in, but CC-BY does not. :/
All this being said, this may be less of a risk here than many suspect/fear, for several reasons:
As many of you have pointed out, this is predominantly affecting stock images. Copyleft trolls have a lot harder time automating the process of identifying content from OGA being used in the wild since most of it is being used in video games. As of yet, there is no "reverse video game lookup" like there is for stock images.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the "minor attribution errors" are the very thing we're obsessively clear about. Although it would be ideal to have a quick "attribution text" button, the suggested attribution guidelines in the FAQ are highly resistant to the kind of thing the article is talking about. I have no idea how often people follow those guidelines, but provided you do follow them, you have very little to worry about.
Thirdly, I (and many of you) watch for bad experiences coming back to OGA. Any time someone says something like "I used this in a youtube video, but I got a content ID strike" You can be sure I take notice. It doesn't mean the submitter is a copyleft troll. Sometimes it's just a mistake. But we always take them down immediately until it's resolved. If anyone comes across a "bad experience" leading from OGA in your internet travels, let me know right away. We've seen a few copyright trolls, and they were quickly dealt with, but I have yet to encounter even a rumor of copyleft trolling on OGA. Let me know if you see something suspicious.
Lastly, if you think you may be the target of a copyleft/right troll, inform me so that I may unleash the full force of righteous wrath upon the evildoers! We have access to legal resources, and my rage fuels pro-bono defenses.
Nah, it's not bad. It's the site saying "Umplix, what are you even doing? I don't know what to do with an .mp3 file attached to a comment!" because it wants to be able to play the file right from the forum, but it isn't allowed to have an MP3 codec, only OGG. We're working on overhauling the site so it isn't so grumpy about stuff like that. :P
I love this! Already picking up momentum. :)
Please note that I am unable to tally votes properly unless your entry is tagged with both LPC, 2022. If it doesn't show up in this search, it may not get counted.
Sara was uploaded here in 2009: https://opengameart.org/content/sara-wizard
In the Land of Leadale wasn't serialized until 2010. It's more likely that Tenmaso was inspired by Mandy than the other way around. :P
@Camilo: Of course! See FAQ entry #1: https://opengameart.org/content/faq#q-how-to-credit
I don't know what to tell you, hon. I have a copy of the unrevised text. Whatever you copied wasn't the original, nor the current iteration. This is the truth, but I doubt I can convince you of that. Bit hypocritical of you to accuse others of gaslighting.
Nope. But it does tell us what kind of person you are. Ragnar regrets what he said. You don't. I think you need to reread what I wrote. I was very clear about not excusing Ragnar's comment. Accepting an apology doesn't mean being ok with the sin that prompted it. I can criticize your behavior and not excuse his at the same time. There is no "angrier" about anyone's statement. This isn't a contest about who made the more offensive statement. It is about who is disturbing the peace on this site. You're the only one left that isn't ready to leave it alone.
I am happy to discuss any part of this and explain what I can to your satisfaction via PM with me. You can express your greivances there to your heart's content, and I will do my best to resolve any unfairness. You can even be as offensive as you want toward me and suffer no repercussions. However, the conversation will not continue here on this thread. It is off topic and not heading toward a resolution.
@Ephesians:
No. It didn't. Server logs retain the original message as first submitted. The original text did not contain the word "hero" anywhere. The original text is identical to the current text.
Nor were you... yet. The warning was for everyone. You'll note I explicitly singled his comment out in addtion to my other warning. Yes, that is bad. And he apologized. Apologies do count when they're sincere. It doesn't innoculate people from consequences for continued bad behavior, but they are taken into consideration. He also said "IF you are ... a sexist troll"; If you feel he told you to commit suicide, are you admitting to being a sexist troll? That doesn't excuse the langauge he used, but I also have yet to see any sort of attempt from you to find accord here. Are you looking for clarification about the challenge's parameters or are you looking for confrontation?
This thread was getting dangerously close to "flame war potential", but Ragnar has done a decent job de-escalating things to some degree.
@Ragnar: I wouldn't say gender/reproductive identity is a political topic, but it is often politicised. This puts this challenge in a position of riding the line on the "no politics" rule. Please continue to be careful with it. If it does devolve into political discussions or a hateful flame war, I will need to lock the topic. Inviting people to commit suicide is not a good direction. You did apologize and recognize that, so thank you.
@Zombietom: If Ragnar is guilty of lumping you in with an undesireable group, it seems you're guilty of the same thing. Ragnar did not call you sexist or troll. He politely drew attention back to the distinct absence of a gender-specific term. Yes, it is clear there was a misunderstanding about what you were saying, but what you were saying was not super clear to begin with. Try to extend the same courtesy of avoiding negative assumptions you're asking of others. And keep the language civil, even in a disagreement.
@Ephesians: I'm having a hard time faulting Ragnar's conclusions about your intent here. The only thing I can think of that would explain away the apparent sexism or trolling is Zombietom's semantic argument, but that doesn't really mesh with your second comment about confusion over the meaning of 'non-traditional interpretations'. The options I can see are: 1) you're being semantic, 2) you're confused about the terms, or 3) you're being sexist/troll. If you're being semantic, you can't really claim confusion, and vice versa. I don't buy that you're concerned about what qualifies your potential submissions for bonus points after Ragnar explicitly said points mean nothing. Find a way to ask for clarification without being confrontational. Hateful behavior (like sexism) and trolls get banned.
Starting out the best way to do that is simply start a thread like "TirNanoG support" in the OGA community Projects forum (or perhaps the Programming forum if you don't consider this a project for OGA).
Once the project has a full featured editor and player (as is the plan) and gains a bit more momentum, I'll look into adding a separate TirNanoG Project forum like we have for FLARE.
Good point. Apologies for pulling the thread off-topic. Further discussion of troubleshooting the TirNanoG engine or trademark weirdness should probably be done in a separate thread.
@Artists! Looking for a designer to give a consistent look'n'feel for the TirNanoG Editor's icons.
Yeah, that trademark is so stupid. I'm sure your usage of them would be perfectly fine (monichrome or otherwise), especially since the plan is to have playstation be one of the available platforms, correct? The difference is your usage probably falls within the "fair use" mentioned by that disclaimer, but our hosting it on OGA under a CC0 license doesn't pass muster.
Regardless, Ragnar's suggestion is also solid (A, B, X, and Y... which cannot be trademarked) and buttons for them can also be found in that same pack.
Don't forget to include a link to your engine in the request! Seeing what you've got will help attract more artists. :)
P.S: Based on the logo, I was reading the name as "Tirna Nog" instead of "Tir Nano G". I assume "nano" for its portability and G for Gnu Public License, but what is "tir"?
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