No. It didn't. Server logs retain the original message as first submitted. The original text did not contain the word "hero" anywhere. The original text is identical to the current text.
"I was told by Ragnar to commit suicide and he wasn't banned."
Nor were you... yet. The warning was for everyone. You'll note I explicitly singled his comment out in addtion to my other warning. Yes, that is bad. And he apologized. Apologies do count when they're sincere. It doesn't innoculate people from consequences for continued bad behavior, but they are taken into consideration. He also said "IF you are ... a sexist troll"; If you feel he told you to commit suicide, are you admitting to being a sexist troll? That doesn't excuse the langauge he used, but I also have yet to see any sort of attempt from you to find accord here. Are you looking for clarification about the challenge's parameters or are you looking for confrontation?
This thread was getting dangerously close to "flame war potential", but Ragnar has done a decent job de-escalating things to some degree.
@Ragnar: I wouldn't say gender/reproductive identity is a political topic, but it is often politicised. This puts this challenge in a position of riding the line on the "no politics" rule. Please continue to be careful with it. If it does devolve into political discussions or a hateful flame war, I will need to lock the topic. Inviting people to commit suicide is not a good direction. You did apologize and recognize that, so thank you.
@Zombietom: If Ragnar is guilty of lumping you in with an undesireable group, it seems you're guilty of the same thing. Ragnar did not call you sexist or troll. He politely drew attention back to the distinct absence of a gender-specific term. Yes, it is clear there was a misunderstanding about what you were saying, but what you were saying was not super clear to begin with. Try to extend the same courtesy of avoiding negative assumptions you're asking of others. And keep the language civil, even in a disagreement.
@Ephesians: I'm having a hard time faulting Ragnar's conclusions about your intent here. The only thing I can think of that would explain away the apparent sexism or trolling is Zombietom's semantic argument, but that doesn't really mesh with your second comment about confusion over the meaning of 'non-traditional interpretations'. The options I can see are: 1) you're being semantic, 2) you're confused about the terms, or 3) you're being sexist/troll. If you're being semantic, you can't really claim confusion, and vice versa. I don't buy that you're concerned about what qualifies your potential submissions for bonus points after Ragnar explicitly said points mean nothing. Find a way to ask for clarification without being confrontational. Hateful behavior (like sexism) and trolls get banned.
"how about some sort of community support forum for tirnanog in the future?"
If @MedicineStorm agrees to that, I'd be very happy to do it!
Starting out the best way to do that is simply start a thread like "TirNanoG support" in the OGA community Projects forum (or perhaps the Programming forum if you don't consider this a project for OGA).
Once the project has a full featured editor and player (as is the plan) and gains a bit more momentum, I'll look into adding a separate TirNanoG Project forum like we have for FLARE.
Thank you for your feedbacks! But is there anyone volunteering to redraw the icons...?
Good point. Apologies for pulling the thread off-topic. Further discussion of troubleshooting the TirNanoG engine or trademark weirdness should probably be done in a separate thread.
@Artists! Looking for a designer to give a consistent look'n'feel for the TirNanoG Editor's icons.
Yeah, that trademark is so stupid. I'm sure your usage of them would be perfectly fine (monichrome or otherwise), especially since the plan is to have playstation be one of the available platforms, correct? The difference is your usage probably falls within the "fair use" mentioned by that disclaimer, but our hosting it on OGA under a CC0 license doesn't pass muster.
Regardless, Ragnar's suggestion is also solid (A, B, X, and Y... which cannot be trademarked) and buttons for them can also be found in that same pack.
Don't forget to include a link to your engine in the request! Seeing what you've got will help attract more artists. :)
P.S: Based on the logo, I was reading the name as "Tirna Nog" instead of "Tir Nano G". I assume "nano" for its portability and G for Gnu Public License, but what is "tir"?
That is good to hear, and I am curious about the project. I would love to see more of what it is about when you're ready for me to see it.
That's interesting about the Borderlands quote. I interpreted it not as "music is pointless, just like revenge" but more like "music is powerful, and so is revenge" :)
Plenty of us can identify with your theme. It isn't a lack of understanding for what you're proposing. It's a lack of passion for a project we can't see. Like i said, most artists want to know their work will be put to good use. You haven't linked to any part of your project that shows this is different from the hundreds of other projects that said similar things but only wasted the artists time. YOU know this project isn't like that, but I don't.
I also understand having no funding for a passion project, but just change where Ragnar said "I want free stuff" to "I need stuff to be free". We know you're not greedy, but nothing else changes.
No one is saying "I don't want to participate". But I'm guessing no one is saying much else yet either because no one can tell enough about it. Allow me to demonstrate the point I'm making: I'm offering you (or anyone who reads this) a job. Right now. No joke, I'll hire any takers on the spot. Paying job. EEOC Certified compatible with multiple types of anxiety disorders. Do you accept my offer? It's difficult to believe there is anyone who doesn't want such a great job.
You don't want to use free assets but you're asking for free assets to use?
I get where you're coming from, but the artists you're asking to work with you will have control over any content they create. Most artists working on a 'labor of love' project (aka not-paid, profit-share, 'free') prefer to release for free (non-exclusive) any assets they create for the project. I think you're going to have to decide which is more important; using assets that are free to everyone, or paying for exclusive assets that are unique to your project.
Remember that using non-exclusive assets doesn't remove the uniqueness from your game. The things that set your game apart are the gameplay, narrative, how you are using the assets... not the assets themselves. Also keep in mind you browse game assets, but your players do not. Players don't care that they could download the assets found in your game. Well, some do, but they tend to like your game more because of it.
If you can't pay money for assets, you'll want to have something else you can pay with. for 'labor of love' projects, that's often the shared passion for the project. People can't see the vision you have, though. You have to share that passion, not just expect it to infect others naturally.
One of the more important points on the post linked above is:
"Have several hours of real gameplay. This isn't just wandering around randomly generated terrain. Real quests, real NPCs, real levels, boss fights, whatever. The art can look horrible, but if you're asking people to work on your project out of the blue and you're not already established, you need to be prepared to show people that their art will be put to good use. ... you just want to provide a good amount of gameplay to prove that you're dedicated and able to finish your project."
You mentioned most artwork is currently placeholders. Perfect! :D Use free art found here on OGA to flush out those placeholders and share a playable demo. A demo that looks like garbage will attract far more artists than a pristine looking game that no one is allowed to see.
If the only difference between two submissions on OGA is how the sprites are arranged, that serves only to clutter an already under-curated archive of game assets. If there is significant value added beyond simple rearranging, file format, or packaging: Sure, that's great! Otherwise, that's essentially duplicating assets and bloating the archive. OGA will not encourage that kind of thing.
I do, however, agree that adding additional arrangments of assets to an existing submission is always better. For example, I would encourage submitters to include both a spritesheet, and package of those same individual sprite files, if they are willing.
"I'm finishing the editor right now, and then I'm going to work on the player."
I would love a user-friendly game editor with an LPC focus! I am messing with the editor now, but I'm itching to try out what I'm doing with the editor, so please let us know when that player is ready to try out. Even if it does't have all the features promised by the Editor, yet. :)
@Ephesians:
No. It didn't. Server logs retain the original message as first submitted. The original text did not contain the word "hero" anywhere. The original text is identical to the current text.
Nor were you... yet. The warning was for everyone. You'll note I explicitly singled his comment out in addtion to my other warning. Yes, that is bad. And he apologized. Apologies do count when they're sincere. It doesn't innoculate people from consequences for continued bad behavior, but they are taken into consideration. He also said "IF you are ... a sexist troll"; If you feel he told you to commit suicide, are you admitting to being a sexist troll? That doesn't excuse the langauge he used, but I also have yet to see any sort of attempt from you to find accord here. Are you looking for clarification about the challenge's parameters or are you looking for confrontation?
This thread was getting dangerously close to "flame war potential", but Ragnar has done a decent job de-escalating things to some degree.
@Ragnar: I wouldn't say gender/reproductive identity is a political topic, but it is often politicised. This puts this challenge in a position of riding the line on the "no politics" rule. Please continue to be careful with it. If it does devolve into political discussions or a hateful flame war, I will need to lock the topic. Inviting people to commit suicide is not a good direction. You did apologize and recognize that, so thank you.
@Zombietom: If Ragnar is guilty of lumping you in with an undesireable group, it seems you're guilty of the same thing. Ragnar did not call you sexist or troll. He politely drew attention back to the distinct absence of a gender-specific term. Yes, it is clear there was a misunderstanding about what you were saying, but what you were saying was not super clear to begin with. Try to extend the same courtesy of avoiding negative assumptions you're asking of others. And keep the language civil, even in a disagreement.
@Ephesians: I'm having a hard time faulting Ragnar's conclusions about your intent here. The only thing I can think of that would explain away the apparent sexism or trolling is Zombietom's semantic argument, but that doesn't really mesh with your second comment about confusion over the meaning of 'non-traditional interpretations'. The options I can see are: 1) you're being semantic, 2) you're confused about the terms, or 3) you're being sexist/troll. If you're being semantic, you can't really claim confusion, and vice versa. I don't buy that you're concerned about what qualifies your potential submissions for bonus points after Ragnar explicitly said points mean nothing. Find a way to ask for clarification without being confrontational. Hateful behavior (like sexism) and trolls get banned.
Starting out the best way to do that is simply start a thread like "TirNanoG support" in the OGA community Projects forum (or perhaps the Programming forum if you don't consider this a project for OGA).
Once the project has a full featured editor and player (as is the plan) and gains a bit more momentum, I'll look into adding a separate TirNanoG Project forum like we have for FLARE.
Good point. Apologies for pulling the thread off-topic. Further discussion of troubleshooting the TirNanoG engine or trademark weirdness should probably be done in a separate thread.
@Artists! Looking for a designer to give a consistent look'n'feel for the TirNanoG Editor's icons.
Yeah, that trademark is so stupid. I'm sure your usage of them would be perfectly fine (monichrome or otherwise), especially since the plan is to have playstation be one of the available platforms, correct? The difference is your usage probably falls within the "fair use" mentioned by that disclaimer, but our hosting it on OGA under a CC0 license doesn't pass muster.
Regardless, Ragnar's suggestion is also solid (A, B, X, and Y... which cannot be trademarked) and buttons for them can also be found in that same pack.
Don't forget to include a link to your engine in the request! Seeing what you've got will help attract more artists. :)
P.S: Based on the logo, I was reading the name as "Tirna Nog" instead of "Tir Nano G". I assume "nano" for its portability and G for Gnu Public License, but what is "tir"?
That is good to hear, and I am curious about the project. I would love to see more of what it is about when you're ready for me to see it.
That's interesting about the Borderlands quote. I interpreted it not as "music is pointless, just like revenge" but more like "music is powerful, and so is revenge" :)
Plenty of us can identify with your theme. It isn't a lack of understanding for what you're proposing. It's a lack of passion for a project we can't see. Like i said, most artists want to know their work will be put to good use. You haven't linked to any part of your project that shows this is different from the hundreds of other projects that said similar things but only wasted the artists time. YOU know this project isn't like that, but I don't.
I also understand having no funding for a passion project, but just change where Ragnar said "I want free stuff" to "I need stuff to be free". We know you're not greedy, but nothing else changes.
No one is saying "I don't want to participate". But I'm guessing no one is saying much else yet either because no one can tell enough about it. Allow me to demonstrate the point I'm making: I'm offering you (or anyone who reads this) a job. Right now. No joke, I'll hire any takers on the spot. Paying job. EEOC Certified compatible with multiple types of anxiety disorders. Do you accept my offer? It's difficult to believe there is anyone who doesn't want such a great job.
Like a cover band playing "covers" of songs?
Or like album cover art?
You don't want to use free assets but you're asking for free assets to use?
I get where you're coming from, but the artists you're asking to work with you will have control over any content they create. Most artists working on a 'labor of love' project (aka not-paid, profit-share, 'free') prefer to release for free (non-exclusive) any assets they create for the project. I think you're going to have to decide which is more important; using assets that are free to everyone, or paying for exclusive assets that are unique to your project.
Remember that using non-exclusive assets doesn't remove the uniqueness from your game. The things that set your game apart are the gameplay, narrative, how you are using the assets... not the assets themselves. Also keep in mind you browse game assets, but your players do not. Players don't care that they could download the assets found in your game. Well, some do, but they tend to like your game more because of it.
If you can't pay money for assets, you'll want to have something else you can pay with. for 'labor of love' projects, that's often the shared passion for the project. People can't see the vision you have, though. You have to share that passion, not just expect it to infect others naturally.
Which is the primary purpose for this sticky post: https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/how-and-when-to-write-a-good-art-request
One of the more important points on the post linked above is:
You mentioned most artwork is currently placeholders. Perfect! :D Use free art found here on OGA to flush out those placeholders and share a playable demo. A demo that looks like garbage will attract far more artists than a pristine looking game that no one is allowed to see.
If the only difference between two submissions on OGA is how the sprites are arranged, that serves only to clutter an already under-curated archive of game assets. If there is significant value added beyond simple rearranging, file format, or packaging: Sure, that's great! Otherwise, that's essentially duplicating assets and bloating the archive. OGA will not encourage that kind of thing.
I do, however, agree that adding additional arrangments of assets to an existing submission is always better. For example, I would encourage submitters to include both a spritesheet, and package of those same individual sprite files, if they are willing.
Thank you, and understood.
I would love a user-friendly game editor with an LPC focus! I am messing with the editor now, but I'm itching to try out what I'm doing with the editor, so please let us know when that player is ready to try out. Even if it does't have all the features promised by the Editor, yet. :)
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