i do agree that firefly is a step in the right direction. i also agree that it will become a core part of many or most artist's workflow.
and let us say that ai is actually intelligent. i disagree, but let's just say that it is. and that it will continue to grow moreso, able to do more things that only humans can do now. what then? if all human jobs are replaced by machines, and we have nothing left to do for gainful employment, what then? money will be meaningless if humans don't have it they won't spend it. i suppose it could lead to the dystopian future of the people who already have money will just become even more powerful, and the people who do actual work will just starve and die. i don't think that is what will happen though. the rich need us to buy their crap. if they don't have people to buy their crap, then their money and power will run out.
my sincere hope is that robots do take all of our jobs, and we can just do the things we love for free. we still make art, we still love one another and eat tastey food, and the economy becomes meaningless because our intelligent but not-conscious robot slaves do all the work for us.
i have devolved into pure speculation, but none of us really knows what the future holds. but if we analyze the state of things right now, the reality is that current ai algorithm are only capable of imitating the stuff in it's dataset. no humans to put new art into the dataset? then no new art. i don't think this is speculation, it is just how these algorithms work, it is what they do. deep learning models need us to learn from. if we stop doing things for them to learn from, then they will just keep churning out the same crap.
i might sound anti-ai, but i'm not. i use it in personal projects. i would love for ethical datasets (ie legal and not stolen and scraped) based on open content that i could make part of my workflow. if i was able to do this, i would probably be able to submit more useable art to oga, because my art skills are primarily based on creating derivative works. so i guess i am not intelligent or creative either, just imitative. maybe i am a robot.
no thats fine, i was just thinking your tickle monster seems like a fun project to try to do, but my art skills are mostly geared around modifying existing assets and creating derivatives.
that monster as a nes-style pixel art, i could probably manage. realistic painting or somesuch. nope.
and your project unfortunately doesnt sound like something i would want to get behind or have my name associated with :) good luck tho
what art style are you going for with this monster?
i agree with your point that ai isn't good with this type of thing. that's because ai art generators are not intelligent or creative. they are simply imitative. humans are intelligent and creative, so an art algorithm can only imitate that human intelligence and creativity. your monster concept was created by an intelligent being, and you require an intelligent being to make it come to life.
that art concept given to a decent fiverr artist, i bet you could get a good result for around 30 bucks. granted, you are trying to not pay any money, and that makes it harder.
but depending on what art style you are going for, i am willing to help and maybe contribute to your project. i am not a great artist, but i am a free one.
my only question is your statement that it contains nsfw content. what does that mean? i will not participate in pornographic content creation, or contribute to a project that is sexist or that causes what i see as social harm. gratutious violence and adult humor i am ok with.
"That´s actually a commercial tactic, drop the prices so much that anyone without big financial backing will sink, and once you are alone in your monopoly rise prices as much as you want. It´s a quite possible future with AI art."
almost all of the ai art algorithms i am personally familiar with are running on a gpu somewhere. you can run them on your computer at home and not pay anyone anything at all. there are certainly closed platforms like midjourney, firefly, leonardo.ai and others that you can't do this with, but the vast majority of ai art platforms i come across are using stable diffusion, which you can run on your computer with python. i have it and i am using it right now. the attatched image was generated locally on my computer using stable diffusion and the dreamlike-photoreal dataset, then outpainted some with a different algorithm
if the big "tech bros" manage to develop a better algorithm with a better dataset, then they can charge whatever they want and not share it, but much of the underlying technology for ai art generators is written in python and can be downloaded on github right now
tracing something is not quite the same as using a reference in my opinion.
if i look at medicinestorms avatar and try to draw something similar, placing a cloud with lightning bolts and an upside pyramid in the same general areas, i have created something inspired by her avatar.
if i take the image of her avatar and redraw over it, turning the clouds into flying pigs, the lighning bolts into pink confetti, and the upside pyramid into a leftsideover pentagon, then i have created a derivative work. even if the new image looks nothing at all like her avatar, and no one could reasonably even guess that i used it to make this new masterpiece, it is a derivative.
so there are multiple issues here that you have to navigate:
1) trademark. does the company in question have the design of the console or elements of it trademarked? playstation has a trademark registered on the triangle/circle/square/cross combo, but arguably only as a logo, not as button prompts.
2) derivative. derivative is really quite simple. when you say it's "based on" xyz, what do you mean by based on? a derivative is a work that is made from another work. if i take a picture of a gameboy and trace a fakeboy over it, my fakeboy is a derivative even if it doesnt look like it, because the image i made is derived from another image. if i draw my fakeboy out of my head, with my own memory of what a gameboy looks like, then it's not really derivative because there is nothing on which it is derived.
if you are using the name or likeness of something that someone else owns, you may be infringing on trademarks. if you are using an actual image, sound clip, video, or other piece of media then the thing you produce based on that media is a derivative work.
the price to use the ai art generators in the cloud? or the prices charged by human artists?
if human artists lose work to the robots, they will have no choice but to charge less.
i dont know if i see the cost of cloud computing increasing, but rather decreasing. bandwidth is the new silicon.
all the major art generator algorithms will work natively on your pc if you either know python or can find a frontend that does it for you. i run stable diffusion off of a laptop gpu.
you can make something similar to a gameboy, something it is obviously inspired by the gameboy, but you cant make something that is derivative of a gameboy or use trademarks
inspiration = ok
derivative = not ok unless you have the rights to the works you are making a derivative of
i do agree that firefly is a step in the right direction. i also agree that it will become a core part of many or most artist's workflow.
and let us say that ai is actually intelligent. i disagree, but let's just say that it is. and that it will continue to grow moreso, able to do more things that only humans can do now. what then? if all human jobs are replaced by machines, and we have nothing left to do for gainful employment, what then? money will be meaningless if humans don't have it they won't spend it. i suppose it could lead to the dystopian future of the people who already have money will just become even more powerful, and the people who do actual work will just starve and die. i don't think that is what will happen though. the rich need us to buy their crap. if they don't have people to buy their crap, then their money and power will run out.
my sincere hope is that robots do take all of our jobs, and we can just do the things we love for free. we still make art, we still love one another and eat tastey food, and the economy becomes meaningless because our intelligent but not-conscious robot slaves do all the work for us.
i have devolved into pure speculation, but none of us really knows what the future holds. but if we analyze the state of things right now, the reality is that current ai algorithm are only capable of imitating the stuff in it's dataset. no humans to put new art into the dataset? then no new art. i don't think this is speculation, it is just how these algorithms work, it is what they do. deep learning models need us to learn from. if we stop doing things for them to learn from, then they will just keep churning out the same crap.
i might sound anti-ai, but i'm not. i use it in personal projects. i would love for ethical datasets (ie legal and not stolen and scraped) based on open content that i could make part of my workflow. if i was able to do this, i would probably be able to submit more useable art to oga, because my art skills are primarily based on creating derivative works. so i guess i am not intelligent or creative either, just imitative. maybe i am a robot.
no thats fine, i was just thinking your tickle monster seems like a fun project to try to do, but my art skills are mostly geared around modifying existing assets and creating derivatives.
that monster as a nes-style pixel art, i could probably manage. realistic painting or somesuch. nope.
and your project unfortunately doesnt sound like something i would want to get behind or have my name associated with :) good luck tho
what art style are you going for with this monster?
i agree with your point that ai isn't good with this type of thing. that's because ai art generators are not intelligent or creative. they are simply imitative. humans are intelligent and creative, so an art algorithm can only imitate that human intelligence and creativity. your monster concept was created by an intelligent being, and you require an intelligent being to make it come to life.
that art concept given to a decent fiverr artist, i bet you could get a good result for around 30 bucks. granted, you are trying to not pay any money, and that makes it harder.
but depending on what art style you are going for, i am willing to help and maybe contribute to your project. i am not a great artist, but i am a free one.
my only question is your statement that it contains nsfw content. what does that mean? i will not participate in pornographic content creation, or contribute to a project that is sexist or that causes what i see as social harm. gratutious violence and adult humor i am ok with.
i believe that particular submission was deleted by the author
to me it seems fairly simple:
inspiration = "i see something cool, i want to try and make something like that"
derivative = "i see something cool, i am going to use it to make something else out of it"
@Danimal
"That´s actually a commercial tactic, drop the prices so much that anyone without big financial backing will sink, and once you are alone in your monopoly rise prices as much as you want. It´s a quite possible future with AI art."
almost all of the ai art algorithms i am personally familiar with are running on a gpu somewhere. you can run them on your computer at home and not pay anyone anything at all. there are certainly closed platforms like midjourney, firefly, leonardo.ai and others that you can't do this with, but the vast majority of ai art platforms i come across are using stable diffusion, which you can run on your computer with python. i have it and i am using it right now. the attatched image was generated locally on my computer using stable diffusion and the dreamlike-photoreal dataset, then outpainted some with a different algorithm
if the big "tech bros" manage to develop a better algorithm with a better dataset, then they can charge whatever they want and not share it, but much of the underlying technology for ai art generators is written in python and can be downloaded on github right now
tracing something is not quite the same as using a reference in my opinion.
if i look at medicinestorms avatar and try to draw something similar, placing a cloud with lightning bolts and an upside pyramid in the same general areas, i have created something inspired by her avatar.
if i take the image of her avatar and redraw over it, turning the clouds into flying pigs, the lighning bolts into pink confetti, and the upside pyramid into a leftsideover pentagon, then i have created a derivative work. even if the new image looks nothing at all like her avatar, and no one could reasonably even guess that i used it to make this new masterpiece, it is a derivative.
so there are multiple issues here that you have to navigate:
1) trademark. does the company in question have the design of the console or elements of it trademarked? playstation has a trademark registered on the triangle/circle/square/cross combo, but arguably only as a logo, not as button prompts.
2) derivative. derivative is really quite simple. when you say it's "based on" xyz, what do you mean by based on? a derivative is a work that is made from another work. if i take a picture of a gameboy and trace a fakeboy over it, my fakeboy is a derivative even if it doesnt look like it, because the image i made is derived from another image. if i draw my fakeboy out of my head, with my own memory of what a gameboy looks like, then it's not really derivative because there is nothing on which it is derived.
if you are using the name or likeness of something that someone else owns, you may be infringing on trademarks. if you are using an actual image, sound clip, video, or other piece of media then the thing you produce based on that media is a derivative work.
the prices will go up on what, umplix?
the price to use the ai art generators in the cloud? or the prices charged by human artists?
if human artists lose work to the robots, they will have no choice but to charge less.
i dont know if i see the cost of cloud computing increasing, but rather decreasing. bandwidth is the new silicon.
all the major art generator algorithms will work natively on your pc if you either know python or can find a frontend that does it for you. i run stable diffusion off of a laptop gpu.
you can make something similar to a gameboy, something it is obviously inspired by the gameboy, but you cant make something that is derivative of a gameboy or use trademarks
inspiration = ok
derivative = not ok unless you have the rights to the works you are making a derivative of
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