> I find it strange you saw a clear need to contribute to an existing set of art, yet in the very next breath say your own contribution won't be needed by anyone. You're talking about the need to improve upon existing-but-incomplete works. The way to accomplish that is to share what you have improved! :D
I think the point Kuranyem was making was that he didn't think his contribution was an improvement.
@Kuranyem: I get where you are coming from with not wanting to submit unpolished or kludged up alterations. I don't think every twiddle one makes is worth hosting on OGA, especially if you're not happy with how it looks yourself. If you get to the point of releasing a game using the kludged up art, then it probably does make sense to post it back to OGA, but short of that I think it's a judgement call as to wether you think it would be useful to others or not and I don't see any reason to second guess you on that.
> "I still think that the assets for the jam should be exclusively limited to what exists in OGA"
You know what? You never know unless you go. Why don't we just try this? Why don't we just run a 'Fall All OGA Game Jam' and see how it goes? I personally would comit to doing a game for it. I think it would be fun challenge and a good test of how far one can go with only OGA assets. If it works out, we can consider adopting the rule for the big Summer Game Jam and if not, well then at least we know.
Monday, August 20, 2018 - 23:07
> What do you guys think about 1 a month, consistent schedule to start and see where that goes?
Sounds great to me! Is there a voting period for these?
> The OGA Game Jam's theme isopen game art.
Yeah, this is sort of the needle we're trying to thread here. How to keep the jam simple and fun but at the same time, make sure that it is achieving it's core function of promoting OGA and showing off OGA works.
I could really go either way with it at this point. The Jam seems to working just fine and showing off lots of OGA stuff as is, so there's no urgent need to re-arrange it. On the other hand, it'd be great to see the Jam and the challenges tie together more neatly.
I guess the one thing I would really like to see is a clear separation between the 'use OGA assets' stuff and the overall game rankings. So when we are ranking the games, we are just ranking them as games, and we let the best game win. I am all for a separate 'Best OGA Show Piece' or whatever award, but I think the overall award should be just for the best game perioid. I mean, it would be kinda lame if a crummy game won the overall jam just because it used more OGA assets, or tied into the Art Challenge themes better or whatever.
> I generally let the artist know I found their art useful...then mention what might make it even better.
Well, giving feedback about how to improve something is a lot different than saying 'I need two more environments and a swimming cycle'.
> that's probably not the kind of artist that's going to be a big loss for this community.
I can think of at least one artist who is sensitive to this sort of thing and would be a /huge/ loss to the community if they left. In fact, said artist (who shall remain nameless) just posted an amazing set which is obviously incomplete, and would clearly need a lot of work to be made into a complete game, but I don't think it would end well for anyone to go in there and start asking for a walk cycle, or a boss monster, etc. etc.
So again, that's just an example of 'a challenge devs face when using OGA' not 'a problem OGA needs to solve' and definitely not a problem with this particular submission or submitter.
@medicinestorm: He's stated that all the tutorial gifs are cc-by-4.0 so technically we don't need to ask, but I haven't because I assume he'd prefer the traffic go to the patreon page or this guy:
TBH, I've kind of come around to the idea that we should either make the art challenge/theme stuff part of the requirements or drop it entirely.
Making it 'optional for extra points' just makes it a kind of 'soft requirement'. So you're free to ignore them, but you're not likely to win the competition that way, unless nobody else does anything with them either.
'OGA Artwork' is an interesting idea. How would it be scored?
1 star for 6 assets, 2 stars for 7, 3 stars for 8 and so on?
TBH that might just encourage shoe-horning stuff in just to get stars.
@saliv:
> I doubt that moving the OGA Game Jam further away from a typical use case of the website is a good plan.
That's true. I think we really saw the full gamut of uses this year, from games that used almost exclusively OGA art to games that just used bits of OGA stuff to complement heaps of custom artwork. So in that sense, the Jam is working just fine.
re: art challenges
Two a month sounds like /a lot/ to me.
I think we were targetting one every other month last year, did make that goal and with good participation?
Best thing I can think of to encourage participation in the Art Challenges is to feature them more prominently on the main page. Doing the link on the upper left sidebar again like we did for the jam would be great. Another cool idea would be to add a 'Latest Challenge Artwork' section to the front page. Getting a bit cluttered I know. But prominently featuring work from the challenge is a great way to encourage participation. It advertises the challenge itself and gives a nice 'extra eyeballs' bonus to participants.
Sunday, August 19, 2018 - 20:52
> The OGA jams are the most relaxed ones I've done, which is why it's been my favorite.
That's a good point. I will say that despite my earlier lobbying for some stricter requirements, I do like that the OGA jam has a more laid back flavor than many other jams. Some jams really feel like they are stretching for a gimmic with their rules, and I'm glad the OGA jam isn't that way.
Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 15:15
@chasersgaming:
Yikes! Sorry, I knew I was waxing philosophic for a bit there but I didn't meant to cause any head trauma!
Take it easy and get some rest. Honestly, you can just ignore this entire thread and run the jam exactly the same next year and it'll still be totally awesome all over again! :)
@Sping: It's fall and all, so I dunno, sara jumping into a pile of leaves. or maybe a play on this guy:
Oop, let me add, they'll be a blanket exemption granted to the 'All-OGA' rule for studio and game logos.
I've volunteered. :)
https://opengameart.org/forumtopic/coming-soon-the-fall-all-oga-game-jam
@Medicinestorm:
> I find it strange you saw a clear need to contribute to an existing set of art, yet in the very next breath say your own contribution won't be needed by anyone. You're talking about the need to improve upon existing-but-incomplete works. The way to accomplish that is to share what you have improved! :D
I think the point Kuranyem was making was that he didn't think his contribution was an improvement.
@Kuranyem: I get where you are coming from with not wanting to submit unpolished or kludged up alterations. I don't think every twiddle one makes is worth hosting on OGA, especially if you're not happy with how it looks yourself. If you get to the point of releasing a game using the kludged up art, then it probably does make sense to post it back to OGA, but short of that I think it's a judgement call as to wether you think it would be useful to others or not and I don't see any reason to second guess you on that.
> "I still think that the assets for the jam should be exclusively limited to what exists in OGA"
You know what? You never know unless you go. Why don't we just try this? Why don't we just run a 'Fall All OGA Game Jam' and see how it goes? I personally would comit to doing a game for it. I think it would be fun challenge and a good test of how far one can go with only OGA assets. If it works out, we can consider adopting the rule for the big Summer Game Jam and if not, well then at least we know.
> What do you guys think about 1 a month, consistent schedule to start and see where that goes?
Sounds great to me! Is there a voting period for these?
> The OGA Game Jam's theme is open game art.
Yeah, this is sort of the needle we're trying to thread here. How to keep the jam simple and fun but at the same time, make sure that it is achieving it's core function of promoting OGA and showing off OGA works.
I could really go either way with it at this point. The Jam seems to working just fine and showing off lots of OGA stuff as is, so there's no urgent need to re-arrange it. On the other hand, it'd be great to see the Jam and the challenges tie together more neatly.
I guess the one thing I would really like to see is a clear separation between the 'use OGA assets' stuff and the overall game rankings. So when we are ranking the games, we are just ranking them as games, and we let the best game win. I am all for a separate 'Best OGA Show Piece' or whatever award, but I think the overall award should be just for the best game perioid. I mean, it would be kinda lame if a crummy game won the overall jam just because it used more OGA assets, or tied into the Art Challenge themes better or whatever.
> I generally let the artist know I found their art useful...then mention what might make it even better.
Well, giving feedback about how to improve something is a lot different than saying 'I need two more environments and a swimming cycle'.
> that's probably not the kind of artist that's going to be a big loss for this community.
I can think of at least one artist who is sensitive to this sort of thing and would be a /huge/ loss to the community if they left. In fact, said artist (who shall remain nameless) just posted an amazing set which is obviously incomplete, and would clearly need a lot of work to be made into a complete game, but I don't think it would end well for anyone to go in there and start asking for a walk cycle, or a boss monster, etc. etc.
So again, that's just an example of 'a challenge devs face when using OGA' not 'a problem OGA needs to solve' and definitely not a problem with this particular submission or submitter.
@medicinestorm: He's stated that all the tutorial gifs are cc-by-4.0 so technically we don't need to ask, but I haven't because I assume he'd prefer the traffic go to the patreon page or this guy:
https://studiominiboss.itch.io/pixel-art-tutorials
Pedro had a slightly different approach to 'fixing the pattern'.
TBH, I've always done it the Sadface way but Pedro's method actually seems kinda clever to me:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/making-tiles-12881715
Good stuff!
Pedro Medeiros has a similar series:
https://www.patreon.com/saint11/posts
@chasersgaming:
Hope you are feeling better!
TBH, I've kind of come around to the idea that we should either make the art challenge/theme stuff part of the requirements or drop it entirely.
Making it 'optional for extra points' just makes it a kind of 'soft requirement'. So you're free to ignore them, but you're not likely to win the competition that way, unless nobody else does anything with them either.
'OGA Artwork' is an interesting idea. How would it be scored?
1 star for 6 assets, 2 stars for 7, 3 stars for 8 and so on?
TBH that might just encourage shoe-horning stuff in just to get stars.
@saliv:
> I doubt that moving the OGA Game Jam further away from a typical use case of the website is a good plan.
That's true. I think we really saw the full gamut of uses this year, from games that used almost exclusively OGA art to games that just used bits of OGA stuff to complement heaps of custom artwork. So in that sense, the Jam is working just fine.
re: art challenges
Two a month sounds like /a lot/ to me.
I think we were targetting one every other month last year, did make that goal and with good participation?
Best thing I can think of to encourage participation in the Art Challenges is to feature them more prominently on the main page. Doing the link on the upper left sidebar again like we did for the jam would be great. Another cool idea would be to add a 'Latest Challenge Artwork' section to the front page. Getting a bit cluttered I know. But prominently featuring work from the challenge is a great way to encourage participation. It advertises the challenge itself and gives a nice 'extra eyeballs' bonus to participants.
> The OGA jams are the most relaxed ones I've done, which is why it's been my favorite.
That's a good point. I will say that despite my earlier lobbying for some stricter requirements, I do like that the OGA jam has a more laid back flavor than many other jams. Some jams really feel like they are stretching for a gimmic with their rules, and I'm glad the OGA jam isn't that way.
@chasersgaming:
Yikes! Sorry, I knew I was waxing philosophic for a bit there but I didn't meant to cause any head trauma!
Take it easy and get some rest. Honestly, you can just ignore this entire thread and run the jam exactly the same next year and it'll still be totally awesome all over again! :)
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