@Kicknbrit yeah, im in agreement with you on that, not that i disagree with @medicinestorms idea, but they both seem to cater to different needs, im at a view an idea gives the potential to 'unite' 'novices' and 'pros' together regardless of the project, where all are rewarded with incentives of some sort that can then be used to get other sources like a currency system that doesnt involve money. which benefit artist and coder, novice or pro. i cant help thinking that a voted project by a community could have a negative effect somewhere, or that a chosen coder/artist for the project based on a ranking system, could be isolating? i dont know, just my thoughts really, not ment to be negative, just discussion.:)
If im honest im completely lost by all this now, I have conflicted views as im not sure what the actual Focus is or its intention to do. A way to bring novice and pro's together in a way that both can benefit from thier influences or a place for the best of the best to get together and make games quickly.
sorry , im tired, il have a read of it later when its spoken about a bit more and i can get me head around it, mines spinning.:)
hmmm, so by that you mean there is already a 'Team' put together waiting to develop an idea, which is put to a community vote, discussion and if it deemed worthy for development it gets the go ahead and that project becomes priority for the 'team' to develop? (after the last project has been completed.)
I more of the thinking behind a reputation points system to use as a currency to allow developers to purchase assets that they need, or hire the artists for there need, and be rewarded/paided currency points for the work done by either artist or developer.. It would work the same as an artist needing a developer for code too. You could also use the currency points or have a reputation points to highlight how good they are at forfilling an obligations for a project need, or I suppose it's a rating system that would help determine for the searcher who they could hire based on those things, and not like a league table where the best performer is always in ya face.
there are novice artists, novice coders, pro artists, pro coders, and I would say that pro artists would be out of reach for novice Devs as they wouldn't be able to afford there work, even if the artist provided free content, it may need modify which the dev can't do, again not being able to afford a 'custom' asset. Or the risk of the inexperienced dev pulling the plug and the artwork being wasted or the artists time would be enough to put them off. There's also the pro dev that want really good art that maybe the novice artists can't provide, although it is affordable.
I think it's about someone believing in someone's idea, be it game or art, and if some of us just took the chance on each other than It could benefit all of us in some way, or not, but there must be an incentive and an end reward of some sort whatever the outcome of the art or game. I think this could help collaborative work and team projects more appealing.
You both have a really good idea here and if you can strike a good balance and get something set up in a way then that would be great! :)
Only my opinion and thoughts by the way.
@Anti-games-dev let me say this, I am an novice pixel artist and I have no idea about your project, if you like my art, and think it will be ok for your project then I will be more than happy to do the art for your game, free of charge(providing your project is free of charge) and I will ask you to credit me for the art in your project.:) things to note though if you choose to use me as an artist, I cannot do demand and time scales, I work at my own pace and do what I can when I can.if you ok with that then drop me a message and we can go from there.:)
sound like a good idea! well done, i cant think of anything that has someting like that, gamedev market you can earn xp, but not sure what you get for it, just a gimmick i think.:)
interesting this, i wonder how it works, are you proposing that you wright like 'scripts' i.e a movement engine? and have it uploaded for people to use non commercialy, or if someone asks for a 'script' or code for a particular purpose that is only used by the requester? (or open) and they gain kudos/reputation points for that contribution? may have to start a new thread for this.:)
a dev log is the same as like a diary. you just write about what your doing, how your doing it, what problems you have, solved etc, pretty much what you do in a day on the project your working on. people like to see that sort of thing and its a good engagement for an audience, those that are interested anyay, it goes towards helping publishing aswell. you can do this on various sites, itch.io,gamejolt or wherever else has a forum, theres far to many to mention, which ever you prefer, you can do it here too, in the "Show off your project" thread. As for best practices i cant help you there, I dont personally have a dev blog/log as such right now as im not currently developing at the moment but probly will once i start again.it all depends on time and there are many ways to do it, post on twitter, facebook etc, gamers forums. have a look at some that do do one, then your have a better idea of what they are.
arh, yes you are right, i have made a mistake, my sincere apoligies. the posts were from a user called "AntGamesDev" which is not you as you are "Anti-game-dev", sorry for my mix up. dis-regard that comment about the posts. (il put that down to my experiance) :) i have removed that comment.
let me give you my advice, although others may think differnetly, so this is what i think.
"i don't want to describe all my tries, but i can't find that kind of man in my city"
Well, you probably wont either,not just in your city. if you not prepared to give an idea of what project you plan to make, then how can an artist approach you with there portfolio?, or whether they know they can actually do the proposed art for your game?. Not all artists are the same and have different abilitys and skills which could be genre specific, or style such as pixel art, vector art etc. Artists want there work to be seen so if you have a really good game idea then that will increase your chances of getting artists who then might be prepared to work with you for your project either on a paided basis or perhaps some negotiation could take place. Artists have portfolios or pages of some sort so that developers can look through their work and decide if thier work is good enough for their project, its just the same for developers. You should showcase some/all of your development work to show an artists that maybe considering working with you that you are serious and you can actually produce the project your concepting, even if its not a game. Its a good idea to have a plan too, im not talking pages and pages for like a bank proposal, just a small description of how you plan to go about your game as this can also prove that your serious and are not a "time waster". There has been a lot of "time wasters" over the years, not just here on OGA but on other forums as well, sadly which makes artists very hesitant to just create artwork on a basis of "I need an artist" without some sort of description and realism behind it to make it attractive at least.
"Looks like money is a common problem"
Yes and No to this. There are artists that create works that are free of charge, for donations, per work basis, hourly rates or even profit share. You need to take the time to search them and read what they are about and find out which artists work looks best for you and which option would be best for your budget needs(if you have one). This can take a long time, but its all worth it and is something that needs to be done if your a serious developer. you never know who you might find, maybe someone who is willing to help you with no payment at all, such as a novice artist themselves that may be looking for the experiance of working with a developer as an example. or even a Student!
"finish all coding the hire a freelancer"
Yes you can do this, there is no reason why you cant use 'Placeholder' art to begin with, most devs do this. it helps create the 'showcase' i mentioned above, and although it may not look as good as you want it to, it will make no difference when searching for the artist you want as they will see past the placeholder art and invision there own style for your project, and again if its a good idea, they may contact you seperatly to ask to do the art for you and send you their rates(if any).
Its important to build a raport with communitys and have respect for the artists, and artists have respect for the developers for which we both work very hard at what we do and need each other. you cant have a game without some art, and the art is lifeless without the code.:)
just a couple of things you could do that might help find an artist and your project.
1) Create a dev log for your project.
2) Search and research the artists that you are looking for.
3) Create a prototype of your project.
4) Be active on forums and build a raport/audience.
5) Gamejams are good for team building, its something to consider.
anyways i hope that helps and this is only my opinion by the way, so take from it what you will. good luck with your project/s :)
@Kicknbrit yeah, im in agreement with you on that, not that i disagree with @medicinestorms idea, but they both seem to cater to different needs, im at a view an idea gives the potential to 'unite' 'novices' and 'pros' together regardless of the project, where all are rewarded with incentives of some sort that can then be used to get other sources like a currency system that doesnt involve money. which benefit artist and coder, novice or pro. i cant help thinking that a voted project by a community could have a negative effect somewhere, or that a chosen coder/artist for the project based on a ranking system, could be isolating? i dont know, just my thoughts really, not ment to be negative, just discussion.:)
If im honest im completely lost by all this now, I have conflicted views as im not sure what the actual Focus is or its intention to do. A way to bring novice and pro's together in a way that both can benefit from thier influences or a place for the best of the best to get together and make games quickly.
sorry , im tired, il have a read of it later when its spoken about a bit more and i can get me head around it, mines spinning.:)
hmmm, so by that you mean there is already a 'Team' put together waiting to develop an idea, which is put to a community vote, discussion and if it deemed worthy for development it gets the go ahead and that project becomes priority for the 'team' to develop? (after the last project has been completed.)
@LDAsh
so its open to anyone who is prepared to do code for a project? someone is assigned to do ask task?
im trying to picture it in my head:
Project: Man walks on moon.
Code needed: Movement engine, Inventory
Assets: Pixel art (orthographic)
offers: Coder 1, Coder 2, Coder 3, Coder 4, Artist 1, Artist 2, Artist 3.
assigned; Coder 1 (movement engine), Coder 2 (Inventory), Artist 3.
think i have misunder stood what you are trying to do.
I more of the thinking behind a reputation points system to use as a currency to allow developers to purchase assets that they need, or hire the artists for there need, and be rewarded/paided currency points for the work done by either artist or developer.. It would work the same as an artist needing a developer for code too. You could also use the currency points or have a reputation points to highlight how good they are at forfilling an obligations for a project need, or I suppose it's a rating system that would help determine for the searcher who they could hire based on those things, and not like a league table where the best performer is always in ya face.
there are novice artists, novice coders, pro artists, pro coders, and I would say that pro artists would be out of reach for novice Devs as they wouldn't be able to afford there work, even if the artist provided free content, it may need modify which the dev can't do, again not being able to afford a 'custom' asset. Or the risk of the inexperienced dev pulling the plug and the artwork being wasted or the artists time would be enough to put them off. There's also the pro dev that want really good art that maybe the novice artists can't provide, although it is affordable.
I think it's about someone believing in someone's idea, be it game or art, and if some of us just took the chance on each other than It could benefit all of us in some way, or not, but there must be an incentive and an end reward of some sort whatever the outcome of the art or game. I think this could help collaborative work and team projects more appealing.
You both have a really good idea here and if you can strike a good balance and get something set up in a way then that would be great! :)
Only my opinion and thoughts by the way.
@Anti-games-dev let me say this, I am an novice pixel artist and I have no idea about your project, if you like my art, and think it will be ok for your project then I will be more than happy to do the art for your game, free of charge(providing your project is free of charge) and I will ask you to credit me for the art in your project.:) things to note though if you choose to use me as an artist, I cannot do demand and time scales, I work at my own pace and do what I can when I can.if you ok with that then drop me a message and we can go from there.:)
sound like a good idea! well done, i cant think of anything that has someting like that, gamedev market you can earn xp, but not sure what you get for it, just a gimmick i think.:)
interesting this, i wonder how it works, are you proposing that you wright like 'scripts' i.e a movement engine? and have it uploaded for people to use non commercialy, or if someone asks for a 'script' or code for a particular purpose that is only used by the requester? (or open) and they gain kudos/reputation points for that contribution? may have to start a new thread for this.:)
a dev log is the same as like a diary. you just write about what your doing, how your doing it, what problems you have, solved etc, pretty much what you do in a day on the project your working on. people like to see that sort of thing and its a good engagement for an audience, those that are interested anyay, it goes towards helping publishing aswell. you can do this on various sites, itch.io,gamejolt or wherever else has a forum, theres far to many to mention, which ever you prefer, you can do it here too, in the "Show off your project" thread. As for best practices i cant help you there, I dont personally have a dev blog/log as such right now as im not currently developing at the moment but probly will once i start again.it all depends on time and there are many ways to do it, post on twitter, facebook etc, gamers forums. have a look at some that do do one, then your have a better idea of what they are.
i hear these are pretty good:
http://www.indiedb.com/
arh, yes you are right, i have made a mistake, my sincere apoligies. the posts were from a user called "AntGamesDev" which is not you as you are "Anti-game-dev", sorry for my mix up. dis-regard that comment about the posts. (il put that down to my experiance) :) i have removed that comment.
let me give you my advice, although others may think differnetly, so this is what i think.
"i don't want to describe all my tries, but i can't find that kind of man in my city"
Well, you probably wont either,not just in your city. if you not prepared to give an idea of what project you plan to make, then how can an artist approach you with there portfolio?, or whether they know they can actually do the proposed art for your game?. Not all artists are the same and have different abilitys and skills which could be genre specific, or style such as pixel art, vector art etc. Artists want there work to be seen so if you have a really good game idea then that will increase your chances of getting artists who then might be prepared to work with you for your project either on a paided basis or perhaps some negotiation could take place. Artists have portfolios or pages of some sort so that developers can look through their work and decide if thier work is good enough for their project, its just the same for developers. You should showcase some/all of your development work to show an artists that maybe considering working with you that you are serious and you can actually produce the project your concepting, even if its not a game. Its a good idea to have a plan too, im not talking pages and pages for like a bank proposal, just a small description of how you plan to go about your game as this can also prove that your serious and are not a "time waster". There has been a lot of "time wasters" over the years, not just here on OGA but on other forums as well, sadly which makes artists very hesitant to just create artwork on a basis of "I need an artist" without some sort of description and realism behind it to make it attractive at least.
"Looks like money is a common problem"
Yes and No to this. There are artists that create works that are free of charge, for donations, per work basis, hourly rates or even profit share. You need to take the time to search them and read what they are about and find out which artists work looks best for you and which option would be best for your budget needs(if you have one). This can take a long time, but its all worth it and is something that needs to be done if your a serious developer. you never know who you might find, maybe someone who is willing to help you with no payment at all, such as a novice artist themselves that may be looking for the experiance of working with a developer as an example. or even a Student!
"finish all coding the hire a freelancer"
Yes you can do this, there is no reason why you cant use 'Placeholder' art to begin with, most devs do this. it helps create the 'showcase' i mentioned above, and although it may not look as good as you want it to, it will make no difference when searching for the artist you want as they will see past the placeholder art and invision there own style for your project, and again if its a good idea, they may contact you seperatly to ask to do the art for you and send you their rates(if any).
Its important to build a raport with communitys and have respect for the artists, and artists have respect for the developers for which we both work very hard at what we do and need each other. you cant have a game without some art, and the art is lifeless without the code.:)
just a couple of things you could do that might help find an artist and your project.
1) Create a dev log for your project.
2) Search and research the artists that you are looking for.
3) Create a prototype of your project.
4) Be active on forums and build a raport/audience.
5) Gamejams are good for team building, its something to consider.
anyways i hope that helps and this is only my opinion by the way, so take from it what you will. good luck with your project/s :)
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